A Young Burgundy Tasting Video

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A Young Burgundy Tasting

Gary: Hello everybody and welcome to Wine Library TV. I am your host, Gary Vaynerchuk and this, my friends, is the Thunder Show. It got to be a little bit quieter. There are a lot of people eating. I want to be respectful. We’re in a respectful establishment here today, and we’re also here with the first ever repeat guest on the Thunder Show, first person to put what episode. This wonderful gentleman was Ian, in the comments, gets a free Schwag pack. You know, mate, put together some wristbands, some t-shirts, send him your address and your size of t-shirt. We’ll put together some goodies for you, sign books. We’re going to put things like that. But Daniel, thank you so much for being here. Daniel: Hey Gary, this is a great honor. I guess I was the first one on the show? Gary: I think. Daniel: Let’s be sure—let’s be sure I’m not the last. Gary: No, you won’t be. Daniel: Alright? Gary: Yeah, I got you. It definitely won’t happen. For the people that don’t know you, and there are a lot more viewers than there were when you first came on, why don’t you tell everybody who you are, a little bit about your career, where we are, and what we’re focusing on today. Daniel: Okay. Here we are at Bar Boulud. This is one of the restaurants in the Daniel Boulud empire. This is on the— Gary: Empire? Daniel: Yeah. Well, I call it empire. Gary: Well, it is. Daniel: We all consider Daniel to be the king of this empire. And we’re right across the streets from Lincoln Center on Broadway between 63rd and 64th. I’m the wine director for Daniel’s restaurants, which in New York include Daniel, Café Boulud, DB, and Bar Boulud right here. And then of course, there is— Gary: And DB is where you have that foie gras burger. Daniel: That’s right, the DB Burger, short ribs, foie gras, and all kinds of goods stuff inside. So I’m in charge of the wine programs here and boy, it’s a lot of fun because not only do people love Daniel’s food but they really enjoy wines. It’s a very sophisticated clientele. We have restaurants for all pop books in all case— Gary: Which is really true, which is a little bit of a myth, right? I mean, just because he’s on such a grand scale. Daniel: Oh yeah. Gary: People are a little intimated. I mean I walked in here and started to apologize immediately. So I was like, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry I’m here.” Daniel: Hey, you don’t even have to apologize. I’ll tell you that right now. It’s an honor to have you in here. Gary: Thanks. Mate, he was talking to you mate. Let’s focus on—listen, we’ve known you for a long time. You’ve been in import game. At some level, I love you a lot because you brought to my attention so many unique different wines when I was young in my career, and I’ve always appreciated that about the wines you brought in. Tell them a little bit about that part of your world. Daniel: Well, I’ve been in the restaurant business and the wine business for quite a few years. Gary: Like 70, 80 years? Daniel: This gentleman could be my son—well, almost my grandson, I hate to say it. Gary: No! Tell them, don’t be scared. Daniel: I was born in 1955, which is a pretty good vintage. Gary: Very good vintage. Daniel: So do the math. Gary: That’s my mom’s vintage. Daniel: I could be your dad. Gary: No, you’re only 20 years older. Daniel: And what I love about wine and what I love about Gary is the enthusiasm and the passion because it’s not just about the potential of wine. And wine we know can be an intimidating subject, but I’ve never looked at it that way. I’ve always been passionate. I love wine and it really comes through with you, your passion and enthusiasm for wine. Gary: I love the vino! Daniel: So you know, it’s really—I mean it sincerely. It’s really a pleasure to be doing this with you. Gary: We’re doing Burgundy, which is—you know, I spoke to a very big client of mine and he said you’re actively working on him to turn him from a Bordeaux head to a Burg head. And I feel like almost—I’ve that so many times. I mean, this is really—this is the part of the world that you just—you die for, right? Daniel: Well, this is a thing— Gary: But at least— Daniel: When I first went to France in 1974— Gary: Before I was born. Daniel: --it was the South of France in the Rhone area, right near Chateauneuf-du-Pape and I fell in love with the region, the culture, the wines, the food. And you know, I still love those wines. But over the years, I came to realize that after visiting Burgundy, there’s a soul to the wine that I connect with. I love the wines of France. I love wines from all over the world, but Burgundy has a special spot in my heart. I think it’s from the experience, but also the Pinot Noir grape for red Burgundy. There’s something about the weight, the intensity on them with a very delicate, elegant style also. Gary: Yup. Daniel: And this is what I love about red Burgundy. White Burgundy also—this is the Chardonnay, and a lot of people know that white Burgundy is made from Chardonnay. Gary: Especially when you get something like— Daniel: Yeah. Gary: No doubt about it. Daniel: So you know what, I do love Burgundy. I love all French wines and I think that what’s characteristic about French wines is the subtlety, the nuance in it. You know that I—of course, we have wines from all over the world on our wine list. We’re talking about French wine today and we’re talking specifically about Burgundy because you know that this is—it has that sweet spot in my heart. So, do you want to taste the first wine? Gary: I do. Before we do, let’s talk about how we got here. You emailed me about this amazing event. Daniel: Yeah. Gary: And which has got started talking about it. I’m devastated because I’m traveling. I’m not going to be able to go. Daniel: You get a rain check. Gary: I’m definitely going to take a rain check. But tell them a little bit about this, mate. Let’s zoom in a little bit here. Let me get—I got to move here. I think that could work. Could you get the glass stain there? Tell us a little bit about this event and program. Daniel: Alright. I did bring along a little marketing material today, so I’m learning from you. Gary: I like it! I like it! Daniel: So this is the glass that you just saw, La Paulée de San Francisco, and La Paulee is an event that celebrates the end of harvest. It’s a traditional, festive moment at the end of harvest in Burgundy and I started something that—it inspired me. It really brings people together. It brings the winemakers, their families. Gary: Everybody is thrilled it’s over. Daniel: They thrilled it’s over. It’s a lot of hard work, the wine is safe in the barrels and it’s fermenting. And what they do is they gather together in the cellar or in a banquet hall at the winery and they celebrate. They break bread together, they share wine, and everybody brings bottles together. Gary: And it’s from the owner to the guy in the trench—like the last guy to the— Daniel: To the picker. Gary: Yeah, which is what’s phenomenal. I mean to me, that’s where I attach. Daniel: With that? Gary: That, and nothing else. Daniel: And that’s what inspired me to recreate this type of event in the United States—in New York. And I had the first Paulee called the La Paulee de New York in the year 200, and that’s what it was. It was to encourage people to get together, share a very convivial atmosphere without the pretension of, “Oh, there are so many leaders and grams of sugar,” you know, without analyzing it too much, just sharing it. And so, we’ve done it every year or every other year between New York and San Francisco, and this glass is from San Francisco where we just came back from last year. So that’s what it is. You know, I wish you could make it— Gary: Now, there are several events. I mean, big ticket items. I mean, you get real serious with the wines that you start showing. I mean you’re getting some real—I mean, you get crazy. Daniel: What we have—fortunately, the winemakers of Burgundy, the top estates of Burgundy really embrace this event. And I’ve been very lucky to embrace—to have them as friends and they know that I’ve— Gary: Did you kind of— Daniel: No, no, no. I don’t get on my knees or no begging. Gary: I didn’t say knees. I said, you know, strong arm tactics. Like if you don’t do this, you’re dead. Daniel: Really what it is for me, it’s important to preserve the integrity of the event. It’s to really take care of them when they’re here, show them the best of New York, take them around. Take them on bike rides. Take them in Chinatown, Harlem, and show them what we’re all about here. Gary: I think you are for the US wine market at some level, huh? A little bit? Daniel: A little bit, absolutely! Yeah. We have a taste in American wines and see what we’re doing here. And I’ll tell you, what’s happened is they started talking. If you take care of them, they’d like to come. They see the level of clientele that comes and really appreciates it. They notice their wines and they’re happy to come back. So on March 7th— Gary: And we’re going to link all this stuff up, mate. So we’ll make that happen for you. Daniel: --they’re going to come to New York. But as you said, there are several events before, not all high-ticket but a wonderful seminar with Becky Wasserman. Gary: Who is amazing. What are the entry level tickets, because they’re so—we’re not talking about $4.00 here. What is the— Daniel: $135.00. Gary: Which is super for a Burgundy event. Daniel: It’s a Burgundy event— Gary: How many wines would that be? Daniel: That would be six wines with the tasting led by Becky Wasserman who is the—how do you say it? Gary: Queen? Daniel: The Queen of Burgundy. She’s been living there—an American woman living there for 40 years. She knows the inside of Burgundy like no one else and— Gary: And the outside. Daniel: And the outside, and she’ll be talking about these wines in the states. She’s come to represent here in the United States. That’s $135.00, very affordable. Gary: No questions. And food? Daniel: No food at that tasting, no. That’s where— Gary: There’s some food here. Mate, zoom in. You got a shot—let’s get everybody hungry. Daniel: I got this pâté, this charcuterie platter from Daniel Charcuterie. Have a go for it Gary. Yeah, I’m going to grab one of them. Gary: I had to. So the Becky, that’s $135.00. What about the grand tasting? And then we’ll get into the wines because—I don’t want to make this fast but I am excited about these events. If you’re here in New York and you’re a Burgundy head, this is it. Daniel: The grand tasting has been called one of the best wine events in the country. It’s certainly the best Burgundy event. You have 20 of the top estates of Burgundy gathered around at their tables serving wines, and I’m talking about wines that you can hardly buy. I’m sure you can find them on the shelves of Wine Library but they’re very rare, highly allocated— Gary: You get so little they go so fast. Daniel: They go so fast, and we’re going to have 20 of these domains pouring their wines for the guests to taste and food from some of the best restaurants in New York and beyond. Gary: Wendy’s, yes? Got you on that one, huh? Daniel: I’m choking. Gary: Alright! And what’s the grand tasting ticket, because I want to link that. That’s the one I really think people should go to. Daniel: That’s $300.00. We have the space for that. It’s going to be the Metropolitan Pavilion. Do you want me to give my website now or are you going to post that? Gary: Go ahead. We’re going to link it anyway. They don’t really— Daniel: www.lapaulee.com, and La Paulee is L-A P-A-U-L-E-E. Gary: Link it up, check it out. Again, we want to get into the wines but you know, I mentioned this zap event. I mean, this event to me—if you’re in New York and you’re Bourgogne, no-brainer. Alright, let’s get in the first one. What are we showing them here today? Daniel: This is a Macon. Macon-Milly-Lamartine from Lafon. Les Heritiers du Comte Lafon. Now, don’t— Gary: Lafon is like—I mean now, what’s the suggested retail of the wine? Daniel: Oh, it’s about $25.00. Gary: Lafon is a producer of that we most associate in a hundreds of dollars. Daniel: Hundreds of dollars. He makes—he’s very famous with the village of Meursault. In fact, his great grandfather is the creator of La Paulee de Meursault. Gary: Is that right? Daniel: The original inspiration for my event. Gary: Now, this is $25.00 suggested, so you can definitely find it probably between $18.00 and $30.00, which is probably what’s really real. 20% Chardonnay from the Macon. Daniel: From Macon area. Gary: Massively underrated area. Daniel: Absolutely. Gary: I mean, I’m not as deeply entrenched as you are in Burgundy. But to me, this is the area that I get so passionate about because I don’t understand why people don’t realize they could have a tremendous Chardonnay with a balance—listen, you know what, I’ve been noted being a little bit hard on California wines overoaked. I want to set the record straight. There are plenty of wineries having a lot of balance in California. It’s just—there’s a big percentage and that’s just the way we talk unfortunately. But I don’t want to get into that. By the way, I think we get some ’06 Burgundies that have been a little overoaked, too, right? Daniel: Yeah. Gary: I mean, it goes both ways guys. Daniel: It goes both ways, and I think some of them got a little carried away with the oak and more modern style. Gary: No doubt about it. Daniel: But this—and Dominique is really a genius in this in that he saw— Gary: And this is ’07? Daniel: This is ’07, yeah. Gary: Tell me—I’m sorry to interrupt but I know they’ll love this content. Tell me a little bit about the ’07 white Burgs in general. I haven’t really— Daniel: Yeah. ’07, it’s hard to know. Gary: I’ve heard some things so far but— Daniel: They are coming in to the market now as you see, and ’07 is really a wonderful vintage for the white Burgundies. It’s a bit— Gary: Yeah, much more from that red. Daniel: Actually, we have a lot of red, more of the red. I think the red is good but a little bit— Gary: Compared to ’05 and then ’06, I mean, we have some nice vintages there. Daniel: ’07 is going to have classic Burgundy style. When I say classic, I mean it has that minerality and freshness, not that heavy, oaky, weighty style that you find— Gary: Or the potential to go heavy-oaky and that’s what I thought a lot of people did in ’06. Because they had the potential, they went a little too far for their— Daniel: It went too far. The vintage overall is a little bit soft and some that were picked too late were the ones that were a little bit heavy. Gary: Yeah. Daniel: Here’s a vintage where you have the restraint, energy, and real dynamic quality to it with light, fleshy fruit. So you have that structure and the right fruit, so I think it’s— Gary: Let’s give it a sniffy-sniff. Daniel: Dominique Lafon is really the master because he makes those very expensive wines in Meursault and sees the potential of this area. And he puts his expertise into his winemaking. Gary: And I think that’s where the opportunity lies. Guys, the Macon, they are so—I mean, besides the bottom ten Macon producers, it really started getting value played. I mean, you can get a really solid Macon even for $13.00 to $17.00 a bottle. Daniel: Oh, absolutely! It’s a large area. Gary: What are you picking up on the nose? Daniel: You see, this wine— Gary: I like the golden apple component that explodes, right? Daniel: But that’s a thing in the Macon. You get that fresh fruit, very apple, you get that minerality, a little stillness. And when you taste it, it gets on the palate. Gary: It’s funny, the apple transcends. The initial attack is almost like apple candy. Daniel: Yeah, and that’s—what I’m talking about in this vintage, you get that ripe fleshy fruit. But then, the aftertaste in the back palate, you get that firmness. And the firmness is a positive. It really leaves a very cleansing feel, a very refreshing feel on the palate. Now, this is a wine that I love to serve by the glass here at Bar Boulud or at all of our restaurants and it’s a great wine to have at home for a first wine, or something you can have with a light dish. Gary: But you’d kill people a little bit with by the glass price, a little bit. Daniel: For you, we’ll make a special— Gary: Just mention my name in their places. I’d really get them into trouble. I had to get them. To me, this has great acidity on the back-end. What strikes me about this wine is its mid-palate transition flavor whereas a lot of wines tend to kind of fall off, especially Chardonnay. A lot of times, it just fall. They’ll hit you upfront then they’re creamy on the back-end. This has a great transition of almost like a steely—almost blue stone in flavor. It almost feels like I’m licking a blue stone in the middle with that little hint of minerality. Daniel: That’s where you get the minerality. Gary: That I felt was overall lacking as a whole, like I would generalize it in the ’06. I like to see it back in the ’07. On the flipside, it is a hair light for me on the center. Daniel: A little bit light? Gary: A little light for me. What about you? Daniel: Yeah. But what I think—and I think that a wine like this has a perfect place either in a restaurant or a table. It’s the first wine that you’re going to go with. Some people just—you have to cut it in your palate, and then you move on to something. Gary: It’s almost like Riesling and maybe the Chardonnay that everybody drinks a little heavier, and this kind of like falls in that. Do you know what I mean? Daniel: Absolutely! And now, I’m going to give you a bit of a hard time. Gary: Okay. Daniel: Super Bowl Sunday. What do you serve with chili? Gary: You heard I said Chardonnay. Daniel: Oh, of course I have! Gary: Oh, you’re listening! Daniel: Of course I was! Gary: Listen, I’ll be honest with you. I mean, I’m pretty into this wine. And I’ll be hones with you, I was king of going in today and I’m like, you know what, I want to really ruffle your feathers. If the wines aren’t going to bring it, I’m going to destroy you. Daniel: There you go. Gary: But you know, I like this wine for my palate a hair—like I said, light only because of the price point. If it is a $25.00 wine, something I’ve always—listen, I drink $40.00 Rieslings, so it’s not really—because at the end of the day, it’s very crisp and clean. I wonder if I fancy almost going with—do you know what’s wild about this wine? It almost feels like a very good Sancerre to me. It’s got that much mineral—it’s almost like it’s got that kind of mineral. It’s Loire Valley kind of look. Daniel: And you’re going to find that in a lot of’07 white Burgundies. Gary: Why? Daniel: There’s steeliness, a very high acid vintage. Gary: It’s high! I mean, I’m addicted—you know, it’s funny, it’s almost confusing to me really because I love acid so much. Daniel: Well, I’ll tell you what you need with this. You need some shellfish, some oysters. Gary: No doubt. Daniel: You need something with a squeeze of lemon on top. Gary: But that’s—that’s what I associate—I feel I’m going to drink it when I have oysters, right? I mean, this is what I’m associating with it. The 20 that you went there, I agree. I think this is not your typical Chardonnay play with a food play. I feel like you go almost—some of the things that you go with like Sauvignon Blanc. Daniel: Yeah. This is not something—this is clearly that first course wine and that first—it really like sparks the palate. Gary: And you know what, now I kind of see where you’re going with it as a by the glass pour, right? People come in, they have this kind of wine and they’re going to like the preview. You are the reason that this empire exists because of choices like this wine. People legitimately think the food is better. I mean, there’s a lot there. Are you willing to own that? Daniel: We like to get the game started. You know, it’s like the starting gun in a race. Boom! Here you go. Gary: Well, at some level though, I’m not kidding. I mean I just got a little pumped. I mean it’s kind of like—this makes a lot of sense to me. You make the right choices at the by the glass while they’re waiting for their table. You get a wine like this, do you know what this does? I mean, I want to eat this whole plate with it. Daniel: Well, go for it! Gary: Well, not yet. Daniel: Alright. Gary: But do you know what I mean? I mean— Daniel: I know what you mean where it gets your palate going. It gets the juices flowing. Gary: Is that a big—now, I’m getting a little nerdy. I’m cutting him off mate and Vayniacs, I’m sorry. Is that a big play for you when you decide what wine is by the glass? Is that the only play? Is every choice at some level have to stimulate the palate? Daniel: No. I think that it’s important for—when you talk about a wine on this level and a wine that is an entry level wine into the menu, that that’s what you’re looking for. That’s what I’m looking for. I’m not looking for something that’s going to numb the palate where you’re getting this oak with alcohol and so forth. I want to start and get you going. And then, we want to offer something—first of all, we want to range with wines. Everybody has a different palate, different flavors, okay? It’s like you like different colors. Gary: No doubt. Daniel: So we do have the big oaky stuff. We have richer wines, we have lighter, we have more expensive wines. So that’s really the idea. Gary: Yup. Daniel: But I thought it’s important to show this because the Macon is a brilliant region for value. Gary: Phenomenal. Daniel: This man is the great grandson of the creator of La Paulee de Meursault. And I think that having someone like that endorse the region into— Gary: It’s huge! Daniel: It’s really important for people to understand that this is a great area. Gary: Yeah, it’s like Jay-Z tomorrow coming out and singing wine is the hottest thing on the block. A lot of people are going to drink it. I mean, it’s a powerful endorsement. Daniel: That’s it. Gary: Alright! Did I just compare Macon to Jay-Z? Daniel: Yeah, you get a kick out of that. Gary: To me, I feel like this is what I have to do for you guys. To me, this scores an 89+ point range. I mean again, if this is an $18.00 retail, $25.00 suggested, I’d get really excited about a Chardonnay like this. I think it hits a lot of different palates. And if you are a serious Sancerre fan like I am but are looking for something with a little bit more weight, this could be a great alternative, especially if you diss on Chardonnay, which I know a lot of you punk-ass Sancerre fans do. This is a great opportunity for you to try something that I think really, really spread your palate and show you a different version. Daniel: Alright, that’s good! Gary: Alright, let’s move on. Daniel: Are you ready to move on? Gary: Yes. What do we have here? Daniel: Hautes Côtes De Nuits. Gary: Hautes Côtes De Nuits Daniel: This is a red Burgundy— Gary: From David Duband. Daniel: --from David Duband. Gary: David Duband. Daniel: And this guy is amazing. He’s like a Greek god. He has like long locks of red hair curling and—he’s one of the—part of the young generation who’s really coming in and putting this stamp on the new level of Burgundy. Gary: And what is that stamp? Daniel: Well— Gary: If you ask him—when he tells you, what is that new stamp? What are the young bloods of Burgundy? What are we standing for? Daniel: What he wants to do is make a statement about the terroir. He wants—it’s like a pendulum. You know, for a while, Burgundy swung one direction in—I think that it got a little bit too modern for a while. There was a lot of—there was this really good extraction— Gary: Are you talking like [Voice Overlap] 99? Daniel: Like the late 90’s, early—exactly. Gary: I agree with you by the way, compared to what I grew up learning about. Daniel: Yeah. Gary: When you look at ’96, or how about ’91, I mean there’s some really Burg heads here, so I think the league of the discussion—I mean, ’91, you’re right. I think it got much, much more modern in the last decade. Daniel: It did. And I think that he’s part of this new generation who’s swinging back a little bit, a little more restraint, less oak, less color, a little bit more stems in his wine. Gary: I like that. Daniel: Really going for—you know, he wants to emphasize elegance. And what I felt would be interesting tasting and talking about this wine is this is an area of the Hautes Côtes. This is an area behind the hills. Gary: Yeah, let’s talk about this. Let’s talk about this because I think this is a major play, mate. This is going to be some great education. This is something that gets overlooked quite a bit and I feel like that’s where you get your valued Pinot Noir. What’s the suggested retail of this? Daniel: That’s a good question. Gary: You’re not sure? Daniel: No, no, no. I do know. What would this be? About—it’s usually about $28.00 a bottle. Gary: How about $12.00? I’ll give you $12.00. Daniel: $12.00, I’ll give it— Gary: Just see what we’ve done for you here. Daniel: [Laughs] Hey, I’m thinking he always wins. Throw this down on the big volume. Gary: Hey, hundreds of cases in a day and you feel good, right? Daniel: What do you call that? The 600-pound gorilla? Gary: That’s right. So $28.00. Again, probably $22.00 to $28.00 depending on—you know, that’s the suggested retail. Listen, you get a $20.00 Pinot. I mean, then that is $22.00. We get into interesting levels. Daniel: You don’t see that in this country. You don’t see Pinots coming in at that price. Gary: No, not with the Euro and not with Pinot Noir. So that’s the price point, which is extremely fair—which by the way, take note, if you’re—am I wrong? Do you feel like—I feel like Hautes Côtes is the biggest value play. I mean, Bourgognes are great. I love Bourgogne Pinot Noir. I really do, and there are some good ones. Daniel: It is. Gary: But I feel you go to the—you just get a whole different game. Daniel: You know, I think they’re getting something extra there also because Bourgognea is a generic appellation, right? Gary: That’s right. Daniel: So psychologically, if we have something generic, you feel like okay, I’m going to be generic for dish soap, generic toothpaste, generic Burgundy, right? But here, you have something more specific, and it’s interesting. It’s a new story for people. Not everybody knows the Hautes Côtes. So I think— Gary: Let’s talk about what’s behind it a little bit. Daniel: So I think there’s a little bit of extra sophistication that goes along with recommending Hautes Côtes as opposed to a generic Burgundy. You know, Burgundy—the main vineyards of Burgundy is this very narrow, maybe a mile-wide stretch of land stretching from— Gary: Do you think people in America in general have no idea how small it is? Daniel: Nobody knows until they see. Gary: And it’s like it’s earth shadow. Daniel: You go there and visit. You’ll realize how small these vineyards are. And you wonder why a wine like this would be so inexpensive. Gary: Given the quantity that it could be produced. Daniel: Given the quantity produced. So this is from the vineyards just behind—up and top the hills just behind the main, more famous vineyards of Burgundy. And because it’s somewhat off the beaten track— Gary: You’re not paying for brand. Daniel: You’re not paying for it. Gary: Paying for brand. Let me ask you a question. I’m just going to jump right in because this is such a big thing, I believe. How many times have you had Hautes Côtes that has outperformed a wine twice the price within the—mate, are you okay? Daniel: We’re going to see that now because we’re going from—I don’t know but we’re going to find out. Gary: Give me like a little—for kicks and giggles, I mean, you’re such a big Burg head. You’ve done it so much. What percentage? Are we talking about 7% of the time you’ve seen that, 9%? Daniel: I think a little bit more. Gary: Think about that, guys. Daniel: But I’ll tell you why also. Often, the lesser appellations I taste are good at drink better young. They’re a little bit more expressed when they’re young. So it’s really a snapshot in time. Gary: Yup. Daniel: But how many of us really find wine and lay it down for a long time? Gary: Not a lot. Daniel: You want to buy it, you want to drink it— Gary: Especially even at—I mean, I’m not. People need space, especially in a city like this, right? Daniel: And proper storage. Gary: That’s another game. Alright, let’s give this a sniffy-sniff. Aromatically, it’s a little bit tight right out, right? Daniel: It’s a little bit tight. It’s a little bit cool. Keep in mind also, our cellar, we serve our wines in cellar— Gary: So let’s talk about that because I’ve had a lot of amazing guests, the Jancis Robinsons of the world on the show and I’m the massive advocate of room temperature. I drink— Daniel: Room temperature. Gary: Every single white wine I drink at home is at room temperature, every wine. Daniel: Okay. Gary: And I understand the outfalls and getting the alcohol a little higher, but I love room temperature. What is your feeling about room temperature wines? And I’m not talking about retail and restaurant. I understand why a restaurant like this would do it. I understand why Wine Library has a huge room at room temperature. We’re talking about your personal consumption. Are you a fan of cellar temperature across the board? Are you a fan or room temperature? Are you a fan of something in between? You personally at home popping gum. Daniel: Me, personally, cellar temperature and a few degrees above. Gary: Yup, a little warmer than cellar. Daniel: So when I'm talking cellar temperature, it could be anywhere from 55 to 58 degrees. Gary: So you’re a 62 guy? Daniel: I’m more of a 59 or 60. Gary: You’re a 60 guy! Daniel: I’m a little below, and I like— Gary: 59.5! Daniel: 59.4. I like wine cool to the touch. Gary: Let me ask you a question. Daniel: I wanted to come up—I want—it’s like a dance. It’s like a strip dance. I want it to slowly reveal itself. I want it to really take it off little by little, alright? Gary: I understand. I like that. Daniel: I don’t want to see everything all at once. Gary: And that’s what you feel room temperature does when you buy? Room temperature? Daniel: When I buy? Gary: When you buy. Daniel: I want the wine store to be keeping their wine at— Gary: No, I’m sorry, when you buy as a buyer. Daniel: Oh, I see. Gary: He brings you wine; he wants you to taste this wine. Daniel: He wants it at room temperature. Gary: He’d want at room temperature? Daniel: No, I want it a little bit cooler. Gary: You do? Daniel: I do. Gary: You see to me, every other buyer up to you now has said room temperature because they want to see it on its full exposure because they are people who are going to drink it over here. Daniel: Yeah. Gary: But you want it a little bit cooler? Daniel: I want it a little bit cooler— Gary: Because I guess you’re terming it at that level. Daniel: I’m also going to taste it a few times. I want to see it evolve in the glass. Gary: So what do you say to a guy that walks into your restaurant and who’s going to be kicked out by eyeballs—which is not really what happens here from experience—but what does he got, three or four hours? Let’s be honest. Let’s cut it down now. He spends $900.00 at a Burg; it’s cool. You wanted to strip dance, the strip going slow, and he’s got to go. I mean, seriously. That’s interesting. I’m not— Daniel: This is good. Gary: Yeah. I mean, you like this, right? Daniel: Well, okay. Here’s the thing. First of all, when you pour this much wine—two to three ounce of wine in a glass, it’s going to warm up fairly quickly, much, much faster than it will if it’s sitting on a table. Gary: Or a decanter even. That’s a very good point. Daniel: So it’s warm

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Red Wine ??? a Classic Taste for Any Time

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Gary: Hello everybody and welcome to Wine Library TV. I am your host, Gary Vaynerchuk and this, my friends, is the Thunder Show. It got to be a little bit quieter. There are a lot of people eating. I want to be respectful. We’re in a respectful establishment here today, and we’re also here with the first ever repeat guest on the Thunder Show, first person to put what episode. This wonderful gentleman was Ian, in the comments, gets a free Schwag pack. You know, mate, put together some wristbands, some t-shirts, send him your address and your size of t-shirt. We’ll put together some goodies for you, sign books. We’re going to put things like that. But Daniel, thank you so much for being here.

Daniel: Hey Gary, this is a great honor. I guess I was the first one on the show?

Gary: I think.

Daniel: Let’s be sure—let’s be sure I’m not the last.

Gary: No, you won’t be.

Daniel: Alright?

Gary: Yeah, I got you. It definitely won’t happen. For the people that don’t know you, and there are a lot more viewers than there were when you first came on, why don’t you tell everybody who you are, a little bit about your career, where we are, and what we’re focusing on today.

Daniel: Okay. Here we are at Bar Boulud. This is one of the restaurants in the Daniel Boulud empire. This is on the—

Gary: Empire?

Daniel: Yeah. Well, I call it empire.

Gary: Well, it is.

Daniel: We all consider Daniel to be the king of this empire. And we’re right across the streets from Lincoln Center on Broadway between 63rd and 64th. I’m the wine director for Daniel’s restaurants, which in New York include Daniel, Café Boulud, DB, and Bar Boulud right here. And then of course, there is—

Gary: And DB is where you have that foie gras burger.

Daniel: That’s right, the DB Burger, short ribs, foie gras, and all kinds of goods stuff inside. So I’m in charge of the wine programs here and boy, it’s a lot of fun because not only do people love Daniel’s food but they really enjoy wines. It’s a very sophisticated clientele. We have restaurants for all pop books in all case—

Gary: Which is really true, which is a little bit of a myth, right? I mean, just because he’s on such a grand scale.

Daniel: Oh yeah.

Gary: People are a little intimated. I mean I walked in here and started to apologize immediately. So I was like, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry I’m here.”

Daniel: Hey, you don’t even have to apologize. I’ll tell you that right now. It’s an honor to have you in here.

Gary: Thanks. Mate, he was talking to you mate. Let’s focus on—listen, we’ve known you for a long time. You’ve been in import game. At some level, I love you a lot because you brought to my attention so many unique different wines when I was young in my career, and I’ve always appreciated that about the wines you brought in. Tell them a little bit about that part of your world.

Daniel: Well, I’ve been in the restaurant business and the wine business for quite a few years.

Gary: Like 70, 80 years?

Daniel: This gentleman could be my son—well, almost my grandson, I hate to say it.

Gary: No! Tell them, don’t be scared.

Daniel: I was born in 1955, which is a pretty good vintage.

Gary: Very good vintage.

Daniel: So do the math.

Gary: That’s my mom’s vintage.

Daniel: I could be your dad.

Gary: No, you’re only 20 years older.

Daniel: And what I love about wine and what I love about Gary is the enthusiasm and the passion because it’s not just about the potential of wine. And wine we know can be an intimidating subject, but I’ve never looked at it that way. I’ve always been passionate. I love wine and it really comes through with you, your passion and enthusiasm for wine.

Gary: I love the vino!

Daniel: So you know, it’s really—I mean it sincerely. It’s really a pleasure to be doing this with you.

Gary: We’re doing Burgundy, which is—you know, I spoke to a very big client of mine and he said you’re actively working on him to turn him from a Bordeaux head to a Burg head. And I feel like almost—I’ve that so many times. I mean, this is really—this is the part of the world that you just—you die for, right?

Daniel: Well, this is a thing—

Gary: But at least—

Daniel: When I first went to France in 1974—

Gary: Before I was born.

Daniel: --it was the South of France in the Rhone area, right near Chateauneuf-du-Pape and I fell in love with the region, the culture, the wines, the food. And you know, I still love those wines. But over the years, I came to realize that after visiting Burgundy, there’s a soul to the wine that I connect with. I love the wines of France. I love wines from all over the world, but Burgundy has a special spot in my heart. I think it’s from the experience, but also the Pinot Noir grape for red Burgundy. There’s something about the weight, the intensity on them with a very delicate, elegant style also.

Gary: Yup.

Daniel: And this is what I love about red Burgundy. White Burgundy also—this is the Chardonnay, and a lot of people know that white Burgundy is made from Chardonnay.

Gary: Especially when you get something like—

Daniel: Yeah.

Gary: No doubt about it.

Daniel: So you know what, I do love Burgundy. I love all French wines and I think that what’s characteristic about French wines is the subtlety, the nuance in it. You know that I—of course, we have wines from all over the world on our wine list. We’re talking about French wine today and we’re talking specifically about Burgundy because you know that this is—it has that sweet spot in my heart. So, do you want to taste the first wine?

Gary: I do. Before we do, let’s talk about how we got here. You emailed me about this amazing event.

Daniel: Yeah.

Gary: And which has got started talking about it. I’m devastated because I’m traveling. I’m not going to be able to go.

Daniel: You get a rain check.

Gary: I’m definitely going to take a rain check. But tell them a little bit about this, mate. Let’s zoom in a little bit here. Let me get—I got to move here. I think that could work. Could you get the glass stain there? Tell us a little bit about this event and program.

Daniel: Alright. I did bring along a little marketing material today, so I’m learning from you.

Gary: I like it! I like it!

Daniel: So this is the glass that you just saw, La Paulée de San Francisco, and La Paulee is an event that celebrates the end of harvest. It’s a traditional, festive moment at the end of harvest in Burgundy and I started something that—it inspired me. It really brings people together. It brings the winemakers, their families.

Gary: Everybody is thrilled it’s over.

Daniel: They thrilled it’s over. It’s a lot of hard work, the wine is safe in the barrels and it’s fermenting. And what they do is they gather together in the cellar or in a banquet hall at the winery and they celebrate. They break bread together, they share wine, and everybody brings bottles together.

Gary: And it’s from the owner to the guy in the trench—like the last guy to the—

Daniel: To the picker.

Gary: Yeah, which is what’s phenomenal. I mean to me, that’s where I attach.

Daniel: With that?

Gary: That, and nothing else.

Daniel: And that’s what inspired me to recreate this type of event in the United States—in New York. And I had the first Paulee called the La Paulee de New York in the year 200, and that’s what it was. It was to encourage people to get together, share a very convivial atmosphere without the pretension of, “Oh, there are so many leaders and grams of sugar,” you know, without analyzing it too much, just sharing it.

And so, we’ve done it every year or every other year between New York and San Francisco, and this glass is from San Francisco where we just came back from last year. So that’s what it is. You know, I wish you could make it—

Gary: Now, there are several events. I mean, big ticket items. I mean, you get real serious with the wines that you start showing. I mean you’re getting some real—I mean, you get crazy.

Daniel: What we have—fortunately, the winemakers of Burgundy, the top estates of Burgundy really embrace this event. And I’ve been very lucky to embrace—to have them as friends and they know that I’ve—

Gary: Did you kind of—

Daniel: No, no, no. I don’t get on my knees or no begging.

Gary: I didn’t say knees. I said, you know, strong arm tactics. Like if you don’t do this, you’re dead.

Daniel: Really what it is for me, it’s important to preserve the integrity of the event. It’s to really take care of them when they’re here, show them the best of New York, take them around. Take them on bike rides. Take them in Chinatown, Harlem, and show them what we’re all about here.

Gary: I think you are for the US wine market at some level, huh? A little bit?

Daniel: A little bit, absolutely! Yeah. We have a taste in American wines and see what we’re doing here. And I’ll tell you, what’s happened is they started talking. If you take care of them, they’d like to come. They see the level of clientele that comes and really appreciates it. They notice their wines and they’re happy to come back.

So on March 7th—

Gary: And we’re going to link all this stuff up, mate. So we’ll make that happen for you.

Daniel: --they’re going to come to New York. But as you said, there are several events before, not all high-ticket but a wonderful seminar with Becky Wasserman.

Gary: Who is amazing. What are the entry level tickets, because they’re so—we’re not talking about $4.00 here. What is the—

Daniel: $135.00.

Gary: Which is super for a Burgundy event.

Daniel: It’s a Burgundy event—

Gary: How many wines would that be?

Daniel: That would be six wines with the tasting led by Becky Wasserman who is the—how do you say it?

Gary: Queen?

Daniel: The Queen of Burgundy. She’s been living there—an American woman living there for 40 years. She knows the inside of Burgundy like no one else and—

Gary: And the outside.

Daniel: And the outside, and she’ll be talking about these wines in the states. She’s come to represent here in the United States. That’s $135.00, very affordable.

Gary: No questions. And food?

Daniel: No food at that tasting, no. That’s where—

Gary: There’s some food here. Mate, zoom in. You got a shot—let’s get everybody hungry.

Daniel: I got this pâté, this charcuterie platter from Daniel Charcuterie. Have a go for it Gary. Yeah, I’m going to grab one of them.

Gary: I had to. So the Becky, that’s $135.00. What about the grand tasting? And then we’ll get into the wines because—I don’t want to make this fast but I am excited about these events. If you’re here in New York and you’re a Burgundy head, this is it.

Daniel: The grand tasting has been called one of the best wine events in the country. It’s certainly the best Burgundy event. You have 20 of the top estates of Burgundy gathered around at their tables serving wines, and I’m talking about wines that you can hardly buy. I’m sure you can find them on the shelves of Wine Library but they’re very rare, highly allocated—

Gary: You get so little they go so fast.

Daniel: They go so fast, and we’re going to have 20 of these domains pouring their wines for the guests to taste and food from some of the best restaurants in New York and beyond.

Gary: Wendy’s, yes? Got you on that one, huh?

Daniel: I’m choking.

Gary: Alright! And what’s the grand tasting ticket, because I want to link that. That’s the one I really think people should go to.

Daniel: That’s $300.00. We have the space for that. It’s going to be the Metropolitan Pavilion. Do you want me to give my website now or are you going to post that?

Gary: Go ahead. We’re going to link it anyway. They don’t really—

Daniel: www.lapaulee.com, and La Paulee is L-A P-A-U-L-E-E.

Gary: Link it up, check it out. Again, we want to get into the wines but you know, I mentioned this zap event. I mean, this event to me—if you’re in New York and you’re Bourgogne, no-brainer. Alright, let’s get in the first one. What are we showing them here today?

Daniel: This is a Macon. Macon-Milly-Lamartine from Lafon. Les Heritiers du Comte Lafon. Now, don’t—

Gary: Lafon is like—I mean now, what’s the suggested retail of the wine?

Daniel: Oh, it’s about $25.00.

Gary: Lafon is a producer of that we most associate in a hundreds of dollars.

Daniel: Hundreds of dollars. He makes—he’s very famous with the village of Meursault. In fact, his great grandfather is the creator of La Paulee de Meursault.

Gary: Is that right?

Daniel: The original inspiration for my event.

Gary: Now, this is $25.00 suggested, so you can definitely find it probably between $18.00 and $30.00, which is probably what’s really real. 20% Chardonnay from the Macon.

Daniel: From Macon area.

Gary: Massively underrated area.

Daniel: Absolutely.

Gary: I mean, I’m not as deeply entrenched as you are in Burgundy. But to me, this is the area that I get so passionate about because I don’t understand why people don’t realize they could have a tremendous Chardonnay with a balance—listen, you know what, I’ve been noted being a little bit hard on California wines overoaked. I want to set the record straight. There are plenty of wineries having a lot of balance in California. It’s just—there’s a big percentage and that’s just the way we talk unfortunately. But I don’t want to get into that. By the way, I think we get some ’06 Burgundies that have been a little overoaked, too, right?

Daniel: Yeah.

Gary: I mean, it goes both ways guys.

Daniel: It goes both ways, and I think some of them got a little carried away with the oak and more modern style.

Gary: No doubt about it.

Daniel: But this—and Dominique is really a genius in this in that he saw—

Gary: And this is ’07?

Daniel: This is ’07, yeah.

Gary: Tell me—I’m sorry to interrupt but I know they’ll love this content. Tell me a little bit about the ’07 white Burgs in general. I haven’t really—

Daniel: Yeah. ’07, it’s hard to know.

Gary: I’ve heard some things so far but—

Daniel: They are coming in to the market now as you see, and ’07 is really a wonderful vintage for the white Burgundies. It’s a bit—

Gary: Yeah, much more from that red.

Daniel: Actually, we have a lot of red, more of the red. I think the red is good but a little bit—

Gary: Compared to ’05 and then ’06, I mean, we have some nice vintages there.

Daniel: ’07 is going to have classic Burgundy style. When I say classic, I mean it has that minerality and freshness, not that heavy, oaky, weighty style that you find—

Gary: Or the potential to go heavy-oaky and that’s what I thought a lot of people did in ’06. Because they had the potential, they went a little too far for their—

Daniel: It went too far. The vintage overall is a little bit soft and some that were picked too late were the ones that were a little bit heavy.

Gary: Yeah.

Daniel: Here’s a vintage where you have the restraint, energy, and real dynamic quality to it with light, fleshy fruit. So you have that structure and the right fruit, so I think it’s—

Gary: Let’s give it a sniffy-sniff.

Daniel: Dominique Lafon is really the master because he makes those very expensive wines in Meursault and sees the potential of this area. And he puts his expertise into his winemaking.

Gary: And I think that’s where the opportunity lies. Guys, the Macon, they are so—I mean, besides the bottom ten Macon producers, it really started getting value played. I mean, you can get a really solid Macon even for $13.00 to $17.00 a bottle.

Daniel: Oh, absolutely! It’s a large area.

Gary: What are you picking up on the nose?

Daniel: You see, this wine—

Gary: I like the golden apple component that explodes, right?

Daniel: But that’s a thing in the Macon. You get that fresh fruit, very apple, you get that minerality, a little stillness. And when you taste it, it gets on the palate.

Gary: It’s funny, the apple transcends. The initial attack is almost like apple candy.

Daniel: Yeah, and that’s—what I’m talking about in this vintage, you get that ripe fleshy fruit. But then, the aftertaste in the back palate, you get that firmness. And the firmness is a positive. It really leaves a very cleansing feel, a very refreshing feel on the palate. Now, this is a wine that I love to serve by the glass here at Bar Boulud or at all of our restaurants and it’s a great wine to have at home for a first wine, or something you can have with a light dish.

Gary: But you’d kill people a little bit with by the glass price, a little bit.

Daniel: For you, we’ll make a special—

Gary: Just mention my name in their places. I’d really get them into trouble. I had to get them. To me, this has great acidity on the back-end. What strikes me about this wine is its mid-palate transition flavor whereas a lot of wines tend to kind of fall off, especially Chardonnay. A lot of times, it just fall. They’ll hit you upfront then they’re creamy on the back-end. This has a great transition of almost like a steely—almost blue stone in flavor. It almost feels like I’m licking a blue stone in the middle with that little hint of minerality.

Daniel: That’s where you get the minerality.

Gary: That I felt was overall lacking as a whole, like I would generalize it in the ’06. I like to see it back in the ’07. On the flipside, it is a hair light for me on the center.

Daniel: A little bit light?

Gary: A little light for me. What about you?

Daniel: Yeah. But what I think—and I think that a wine like this has a perfect place either in a restaurant or a table. It’s the first wine that you’re going to go with. Some people just—you have to cut it in your palate, and then you move on to something.

Gary: It’s almost like Riesling and maybe the Chardonnay that everybody drinks a little heavier, and this kind of like falls in that. Do you know what I mean?

Daniel: Absolutely! And now, I’m going to give you a bit of a hard time.

Gary: Okay.

Daniel: Super Bowl Sunday. What do you serve with chili?

Gary: You heard I said Chardonnay.

Daniel: Oh, of course I have!

Gary: Oh, you’re listening!

Daniel: Of course I was!

Gary: Listen, I’ll be honest with you. I mean, I’m pretty into this wine. And I’ll be hones with you, I was king of going in today and I’m like, you know what, I want to really ruffle your feathers. If the wines aren’t going to bring it, I’m going to destroy you.

Daniel: There you go.

Gary: But you know, I like this wine for my palate a hair—like I said, light only because of the price point. If it is a $25.00 wine, something I’ve always—listen, I drink $40.00 Rieslings, so it’s not really—because at the end of the day, it’s very crisp and clean. I wonder if I fancy almost going with—do you know what’s wild about this wine? It almost feels like a very good Sancerre to me. It’s got that much mineral—it’s almost like it’s got that kind of mineral. It’s Loire Valley kind of look.

Daniel: And you’re going to find that in a lot of’07 white Burgundies.

Gary: Why?

Daniel: There’s steeliness, a very high acid vintage.

Gary: It’s high! I mean, I’m addicted—you know, it’s funny, it’s almost confusing to me really because I love acid so much.

Daniel: Well, I’ll tell you what you need with this. You need some shellfish, some oysters.

Gary: No doubt.

Daniel: You need something with a squeeze of lemon on top.

Gary: But that’s—that’s what I associate—I feel I’m going to drink it when I have oysters, right? I mean, this is what I’m associating with it. The 20 that you went there, I agree. I think this is not your typical Chardonnay play with a food play. I feel like you go almost—some of the things that you go with like Sauvignon Blanc.

Daniel: Yeah. This is not something—this is clearly that first course wine and that first—it really like sparks the palate.

Gary: And you know what, now I kind of see where you’re going with it as a by the glass pour, right? People come in, they have this kind of wine and they’re going to like the preview. You are the reason that this empire exists because of choices like this wine. People legitimately think the food is better. I mean, there’s a lot there. Are you willing to own that?

Daniel: We like to get the game started. You know, it’s like the starting gun in a race. Boom! Here you go.

Gary: Well, at some level though, I’m not kidding. I mean I just got a little pumped. I mean it’s kind of like—this makes a lot of sense to me. You make the right choices at the by the glass while they’re waiting for their table. You get a wine like this, do you know what this does? I mean, I want to eat this whole plate with it.

Daniel: Well, go for it!

Gary: Well, not yet.

Daniel: Alright.

Gary: But do you know what I mean? I mean—

Daniel: I know what you mean where it gets your palate going. It gets the juices flowing.

Gary: Is that a big—now, I’m getting a little nerdy. I’m cutting him off mate and Vayniacs, I’m sorry. Is that a big play for you when you decide what wine is by the glass? Is that the only play? Is every choice at some level have to stimulate the palate?

Daniel: No. I think that it’s important for—when you talk about a wine on this level and a wine that is an entry level wine into the menu, that that’s what you’re looking for. That’s what I’m looking for. I’m not looking for something that’s going to numb the palate where you’re getting this oak with alcohol and so forth. I want to start and get you going.

And then, we want to offer something—first of all, we want to range with wines. Everybody has a different palate, different flavors, okay? It’s like you like different colors.

Gary: No doubt.

Daniel: So we do have the big oaky stuff. We have richer wines, we have lighter, we have more expensive wines. So that’s really the idea.

Gary: Yup.

Daniel: But I thought it’s important to show this because the Macon is a brilliant region for value.

Gary: Phenomenal.

Daniel: This man is the great grandson of the creator of La Paulee de Meursault. And I think that having someone like that endorse the region into—

Gary: It’s huge!

Daniel: It’s really important for people to understand that this is a great area.

Gary: Yeah, it’s like Jay-Z tomorrow coming out and singing wine is the hottest thing on the block. A lot of people are going to drink it. I mean, it’s a powerful endorsement.

Daniel: That’s it.

Gary: Alright! Did I just compare Macon to Jay-Z?

Daniel: Yeah, you get a kick out of that.

Gary: To me, I feel like this is what I have to do for you guys. To me, this scores an 89+ point range. I mean again, if this is an $18.00 retail, $25.00 suggested, I’d get really excited about a Chardonnay like this. I think it hits a lot of different palates. And if you are a serious Sancerre fan like I am but are looking for something with a little bit more weight, this could be a great alternative, especially if you diss on Chardonnay, which I know a lot of you punk-ass Sancerre fans do. This is a great opportunity for you to try something that I think really, really spread your palate and show you a different version.

Daniel: Alright, that’s good!

Gary: Alright, let’s move on.

Daniel: Are you ready to move on?

Gary: Yes. What do we have here?

Daniel: Hautes Côtes De Nuits.

Gary: Hautes Côtes De Nuits

Daniel: This is a red Burgundy—

Gary: From David Duband.

Daniel: --from David Duband.

Gary: David Duband.

Daniel: And this guy is amazing. He’s like a Greek god. He has like long locks of red hair curling and—he’s one of the—part of the young generation who’s really coming in and putting this stamp on the new level of Burgundy.

Gary: And what is that stamp?

Daniel: Well—

Gary: If you ask him—when he tells you, what is that new stamp? What are the young bloods of Burgundy? What are we standing for?

Daniel: What he wants to do is make a statement about the terroir. He wants—it’s like a pendulum. You know, for a while, Burgundy swung one direction in—I think that it got a little bit too modern for a while. There was a lot of—there was this really good extraction—

Gary: Are you talking like [Voice Overlap] 99?

Daniel: Like the late 90’s, early—exactly.

Gary: I agree with you by the way, compared to what I grew up learning about.

Daniel: Yeah.

Gary: When you look at ’96, or how about ’91, I mean there’s some really Burg heads here, so I think the league of the discussion—I mean, ’91, you’re right. I think it got much, much more modern in the last decade.

Daniel: It did. And I think that he’s part of this new generation who’s swinging back a little bit, a little more restraint, less oak, less color, a little bit more stems in his wine.

Gary: I like that.

Daniel: Really going for—you know, he wants to emphasize elegance. And what I felt would be interesting tasting and talking about this wine is this is an area of the Hautes Côtes. This is an area behind the hills.

Gary: Yeah, let’s talk about this. Let’s talk about this because I think this is a major play, mate. This is going to be some great education. This is something that gets overlooked quite a bit and I feel like that’s where you get your valued Pinot Noir. What’s the suggested retail of this?

Daniel: That’s a good question.

Gary: You’re not sure?

Daniel: No, no, no. I do know. What would this be? About—it’s usually about $28.00 a bottle.

Gary: How about $12.00? I’ll give you $12.00.

Daniel: $12.00, I’ll give it—

Gary: Just see what we’ve done for you here.

Daniel: [Laughs] Hey, I’m thinking he always wins. Throw this down on the big volume.

Gary: Hey, hundreds of cases in a day and you feel good, right?

Daniel: What do you call that? The 600-pound gorilla?

Gary: That’s right. So $28.00. Again, probably $22.00 to $28.00 depending on—you know, that’s the suggested retail. Listen, you get a $20.00 Pinot. I mean, then that is $22.00. We get into interesting levels.

Daniel: You don’t see that in this country. You don’t see Pinots coming in at that price.

Gary: No, not with the Euro and not with Pinot Noir. So that’s the price point, which is extremely fair—which by the way, take note, if you’re—am I wrong? Do you feel like—I feel like Hautes Côtes is the biggest value play. I mean, Bourgognes are great. I love Bourgogne Pinot Noir. I really do, and there are some good ones.

Daniel: It is.

Gary: But I feel you go to the—you just get a whole different game.

Daniel: You know, I think they’re getting something extra there also because Bourgognea is a generic appellation, right?

Gary: That’s right.

Daniel: So psychologically, if we have something generic, you feel like okay, I’m going to be generic for dish soap, generic toothpaste, generic Burgundy, right? But here, you have something more specific, and it’s interesting. It’s a new story for people. Not everybody knows the Hautes Côtes. So I think—

Gary: Let’s talk about what’s behind it a little bit.

Daniel: So I think there’s a little bit of extra sophistication that goes along with recommending Hautes Côtes as opposed to a generic Burgundy. You know, Burgundy—the main vineyards of Burgundy is this very narrow, maybe a mile-wide stretch of land stretching from—

Gary: Do you think people in America in general have no idea how small it is?

Daniel: Nobody knows until they see.

Gary: And it’s like it’s earth shadow.

Daniel: You go there and visit. You’ll realize how small these vineyards are. And you wonder why a wine like this would be so inexpensive.

Gary: Given the quantity that it could be produced.

Daniel: Given the quantity produced. So this is from the vineyards just behind—up and top the hills just behind the main, more famous vineyards of Burgundy. And because it’s somewhat off the beaten track—

Gary: You’re not paying for brand.

Daniel: You’re not paying for it.

Gary: Paying for brand. Let me ask you a question. I’m just going to jump right in because this is such a big thing, I believe. How many times have you had Hautes Côtes that has outperformed a wine twice the price within the—mate, are you okay?

Daniel: We’re going to see that now because we’re going from—I don’t know but we’re going to find out.

Gary: Give me like a little—for kicks and giggles, I mean, you’re such a big Burg head. You’ve done it so much. What percentage? Are we talking about 7% of the time you’ve seen that, 9%?

Daniel: I think a little bit more.

Gary: Think about that, guys.

Daniel: But I’ll tell you why also. Often, the lesser appellations I taste are good at drink better young. They’re a little bit more expressed when they’re young. So it’s really a snapshot in time.

Gary: Yup.

Daniel: But how many of us really find wine and lay it down for a long time?

Gary: Not a lot.

Daniel: You want to buy it, you want to drink it—

Gary: Especially even at—I mean, I’m not. People need space, especially in a city like this, right?

Daniel: And proper storage.

Gary: That’s another game. Alright, let’s give this a sniffy-sniff. Aromatically, it’s a little bit tight right out, right?

Daniel: It’s a little bit tight. It’s a little bit cool. Keep in mind also, our cellar, we serve our wines in cellar—

Gary: So let’s talk about that because I’ve had a lot of amazing guests, the Jancis Robinsons of the world on the show and I’m the massive advocate of room temperature. I drink—

Daniel: Room temperature.

Gary: Every single white wine I drink at home is at room temperature, every wine.

Daniel: Okay.

Gary: And I understand the outfalls and getting the alcohol a little higher, but I love room temperature. What is your feeling about room temperature wines? And I’m not talking about retail and restaurant. I understand why a restaurant like this would do it. I understand why Wine Library has a huge room at room temperature. We’re talking about your personal consumption. Are you a fan of cellar temperature across the board? Are you a fan or room temperature? Are you a fan of something in between? You personally at home popping gum.

Daniel: Me, personally, cellar temperature and a few degrees above.

Gary: Yup, a little warmer than cellar.

Daniel: So when I'm talking cellar temperature, it could be anywhere from 55 to 58 degrees.

Gary: So you’re a 62 guy?

Daniel: I’m more of a 59 or 60.

Gary: You’re a 60 guy!

Daniel: I’m a little below, and I like—

Gary: 59.5!

Daniel: 59.4. I like wine cool to the touch.

Gary: Let me ask you a question.

Daniel: I wanted to come up—I want—it’s like a dance. It’s like a strip dance. I want it to slowly reveal itself. I want it to really take it off little by little, alright?

Gary: I understand. I like that.

Daniel: I don’t want to see everything all at once.

Gary: And that’s what you feel room temperature does when you buy? Room temperature?

Daniel: When I buy?

Gary: When you buy.

Daniel: I want the wine store to be keeping their wine at—

Gary: No, I’m sorry, when you buy as a buyer.

Daniel: Oh, I see.

Gary: He brings you wine; he wants you to taste this wine.

Daniel: He wants it at room temperature.

Gary: He’d want at room temperature?

Daniel: No, I want it a little bit cooler.

Gary: You do?

Daniel: I do.

Gary: You see to me, every other buyer up to you now has said room temperature because they want to see it on its full exposure because they are people who are going to drink it over here.

Daniel: Yeah.

Gary: But you want it a little bit cooler?

Daniel: I want it a little bit cooler—

Gary: Because I guess you’re terming it at that level.

Daniel: I’m also going to taste it a few times. I want to see it evolve in the glass.

Gary: So what do you say to a guy that walks into your restaurant and who’s going to be kicked out by eyeballs—which is not really what happens here from experience—but what does he got, three or four hours? Let’s be honest. Let’s cut it down now. He spends $900.00 at a Burg; it’s cool. You wanted to strip dance, the strip going slow, and he’s got to go. I mean, seriously. That’s interesting. I’m not—

Daniel: This is good.

Gary: Yeah. I mean, you like this, right?

Daniel: Well, okay. Here’s the thing. First of all, when you pour this much wine—two to three ounce of wine in a glass, it’s going to warm up fairly quickly, much, much faster than it will if it’s sitting on a table.

Gary: Or a decanter even. That’s a very good point.

Daniel: So it’s warm

Transcription by: Scribe4you Transcription Services

A Young Burgundy Tasting

A Young Burgundy Tasting -

A Young Burgundy Tasting -