Emma Howard: Hello! I’m Emma Howard, and we are talking about breastfeeding here on the Baby Channel. With me is Heather Welford from the NCT. Heather, you are a Breastfeeding Counsellor and we have been talking to you with a number of other babies at different stages before and now. Now I have got my little one here, Scarlet. Scarlet is my second baby and I found breastfeeding very easy with her but I didn’t the first time with my son, and almost considered giving up with him. I’m very glad I didn’t, but I am told I’m typical, would you say -- well maybe not typical, but certainly it's quite a common experience.
Heather Welford: Yeah, people sometimes don’t have a good experience the first time around. They think about bottle-feeding second time around. But you are not untypical, lots of people are like you. They have a brilliant experience the second time around. Things seem to fall into place. If they, perhaps weren’t very well supported or if they had poor advice in hospital with baby number one, they are a little bit more informed with baby number two, and people don’t need to worry that they won’t have time for the toddler and the new baby because with breastfeeding, apart you from this, you have got a spare arm to cuddle the toddler. Build a legoman, read a story, do all sorts of other things but not with the bottle.
Emma Howard: No that's very true. I didn't have legoman building up towers but certainly it’s sort of – so it is often more reassurance while you are feeding the second baby and yes, I have that arm and I can cuddle the toddler. That’s true but I think confidence is the key thing though. First time around, you are told it’s natural, you are told that it will all fall into place but so many women don’t find that's the case. I think most women have a difficult start. It’s a learning experience for both you and the baby, isn’t it?
Heather Welford: That’s right. All the instincts are there in the baby. The baby is born healthy and energetic, the baby will have sucking and swallowing instincts.
Emma Howard: Although some babies can be lazy feeders, can't they?
Heather Welford: They can and they may need a little bit extra encouragement and the moms need a lot of support while difficult time is taking place. The mom also needs some information on techniques sometimes to get herself and the baby into a position where it doesn’t hurt because soreness is one of the biggest reasons why women switch to the bottle and it is almost always avoidable with the right technique.
Emma Howard: So it's positioning. Positioning is everything.
Heather Welford: The attachment of the baby -- the positioning in terms of how the mother is sitting and where the baby is, is less crucial than how the baby takes the nipple and breast --
Emma Howard: How the baby is attached to the breast?
Heather Welford: That’s right.
Emma Howard: But in terms of sitting. Beside if you are sitting on as perfectly fine seat to have to feed the baby. You don’t need to buy special tap.
Heather Welford: You don’t. It’s nice if you can give yourself a nice treat with that but you can breastfeed in any position really as long as you are comfortable and the baby is comfortable. Some mothers learn to breastfeed lying down which is a good way getting you feed them, having the rest to yourself.
Emma Howard:And then you can sort of put the foot on to the arm, the football position, especially with twins. I have seen mothers holding their babies’ heads underneath the breast and the body that goes --
Heather Welford: I know it’s very impressive. That way you can two at once.
Emma Howard: I am manure of that.
Heather Welford: And there are different ways of holding the baby’s body as well but the crucial thing is that mouth open the baby shouldn’t have his chin tucked into his chest. The chin should be touching the breast and the nose normally is free. And that means the head is at least slightly tilt back which gives a good sucking and swallowing position. I mean if you try to drink a cup of tea with your chin tucked into your chest, you are trying a rather difficult one.
Emma Howard: So it takes a little bit of plan.
Heather Welford: Babies need to be comfortable on their mouths and their heads and their necks in a good position for sucking and swallowing.
Emma Howard: And you do better in the end. But the beginning is hard because often the mouth comes and you got engorged breast. You got this little baby with a tiny little mouth. Lots of mothers are scared. They are going to suffocate their baby against their breast.
Heather Welford: Yeah, it’s a good idea for mothers to get help if they are feeling that lacking in confidence to seek out somebody in hospital or at home if they are seeing the Community Midwife or they can –
Emma Howard: They come in NCT seek help --
Heather Welford: They can, we have got a special – the breastfeeding line and there’s other organizations and other local sources of support. That you can get somebody who know what they are looking for, who can help you with that techniques and if it’s hurting and it’s not getting better, then it’s almost certain your baby –
Emma Howard: She want some --
Heather Welford: It shouldn’t, it really shouldn’t hurt. It’s not good enough for somebody to tell you, oh, it shouldn’t hurt you must be doing it wrong and then disappearing. You know you need some guidance on that technique
Emma Howard: And you need the tools. Why are we getting worse as it seems to breastfeeding? It’s said that a few hundred years ago, there was a community – I mean because there was no other option we did it so well. Why is modern life kind of corroding it? What do you think?
Heather Welford: Yeah, I think the tide is turning. It’s more of us realize the benefits of breastfeeding and how convenient it can be. When you get it going, it really – it’s a convenient and effective and comfortable way to feed your babies. So I feel the tide is turning but in the last generation or so, we have lost some of the skills that mother’s grew up just knowing and when they knew what a baby look like feeding on a breast because they have seen their mothers in their arms and their friends doing it without making much of big deal.
Emma Howard: And then it is in the communities, and of course modern women very often live in that kind of community; their mother is far away, or they are with her sister.
Heather Welford: Oh, maybe these days, that the mother and sister didn’t breastfeed so this is where other sources of help can be very, very important.
Emma Howard: So groups, getting that support for womanhood, the same stage or maybe a bit further on the who have been through the same problems.
Heather Welford: Yeah, yeah.
Emma Howard: Should we take any supplements while you are breastfeeding because you can take supplements when you are pregnant. A lot of them say carry on while you are breastfeeding. Do you think that’s a good idea?
Heather Welford: Yeah, it won’t do you any harm but the great thing about breastfeeding is that it’s pretty robust. You don’t really need to eat anything in particular or you don’t need to go to drink anything in particular or drink large quantities. A lot women are thirstier, a bit thirstier when they are breastfeeding.
Emma Howard: We have always been told to make sure you have a large glass of water by your side while you are breastfeeding.
Heather Welford: Well, because you might be thirsty during the breastfeed and it’s convenient for you to have that. But you don’t need to make a big thing about having any more drink than you need to satisfy your thirst.
Emma Howard: So the body really is taking care of itself?
Heather Welford: It really does, yeah.
Emma Howard: But you are going to make sure that you take care of you because that’s the best thing to help your baby. So try not to overdo it.
Heather Welford: I think it’s tiring to have a new baby and those extra responsibilities on the broken nights that are inevitable. So yes, look after yourself but if you don’t, your breastfeeding won't suffer. You might suffer but the breast feeding will carry on regardless.
Emma Howard: Because that’s the survival kind of thing.
Heather Welford: It's nature looking after the next generation. That’s not to say that you should deliberately ignore the needs to have a good diet. No, no. But your baby will be fine. People have breastfed throughout history in extraordinary circumstances when they haven’t been sure about where the next meal is coming from. And we can do the same in our society as well. They are not different.
Emma Howard: This pretty much supply everything the baby needs.
Heather Welford: Yes, it does. We know that it has everything the baby needs for about the first six months of the baby’s life. That’s the food and drink, the baby doesn’t need any extra water, doesn’t need juice, doesn’t need any extra formula. When breastfeeding is going well, you will supply everything the baby needs to grow and thrive.
Emma Howard: And now advice has changed from the government when I have my first child a few years ago, weaning them for four months was the advice, now it’s moved to six months. That can be a lot easier for lot of moms, can't it? They shouldn’t be anxious about that.
Heather Welford: Well the great thing about waiting that a little bit longer is your baby is a couple of months further down the road of developments in the baby can hold little bits of food, enjoy that experience of putting it in his mouth and making a lovely mesh, all that sort of things. You don’t need to be so conscious about restricting the baby’s diet. The baby can have most things at age of six months. So you can move the baby on to appropriate family meals a lot sooner than you would realize.
Emma Howard: And breastfeeding alongside.
Heather Welford: Oh, yes. You don’t stop at six months. Breast milk continues to be a nutritious food and drink for as long as you want to give it.
Emma Howard: Because cow’s milk doesn’t really become a drink until the baby is about a year old, doesn’t it?
Heather Welford: That’s right. The current advice is that if the baby is having a drink of milk in the first year, it should be breast milk formula. After 12 months, it can be cow’s milk, you know doorstep milk, milkman’s milk's or breast milk. And as I said, you can continue giving breast milk which is a nutritious package of food-and-drink all-in-one for as long as you want to give it.
Emma Howard: And why do you think still so many women particularly in the United Kingdom give up so early? Do you think we are just not preparing women today? How tough it is for the first few weeks. It gets better. It becomes a wonderful experience but those first few weeks are really quite a shock to remain that way.
Heather Welford: That’s right. It’s a real shame, isn’t it? I mean here you are all feeding Scarlet and -- I would say it's easy for you --
Emma Howard: It’s easy now yes she is --
Heather Welford: It’s convenient, mothers who stop in the first weeks don’t get to that stage when it really is a convenient, easy -- you don’t need to prepare it, night feeds are more convenient and giving it up in the early weeks can be -- you miss out on really the best part of those --
Emma Howard: And yeah it’s also hard. I really understand why people do because it is so tough and I think it’s the lack of preparation. I mean do you feel that the NCT are doing all they can to prepare women about how tough it can be in the first few weeks because your sense of failure is really quite huge, isn’t it?
Heather Welford: That’s right. This is one of the difficulties I have with the campaign to encourage women to breast feed because that’s only half the story. Women need to understand that there is certain supports and techniques that make breastfeeding easier and more rewarding. So it’s no good telling women, it’s a wonderful thing to do and then not giving them the support when they need to do it. Preparing women in pregnancy only goes so far because the reality can hit you. Unfortunately in this country there is a shortage of midwives both in hospital and in the community. And mothers may not have the right sort of help when they really need it.
Emma Howard: So the key is to ask for it.
Heather Welford: You have got to ask but don’t greet your teeth and think everything is going to magically get better.
Emma Howard: That it may not work if you are possibly in a wrong position.
Heather Welford: Yeah, yes. So as long as it doesn’t get worse if the baby continues to be attached in a way that’s damaging the skin.
Emma Howard: So ask for help.
Heather Welford: Ask for help. Give your baby lots of lovely skin to skin contact in the early days and that nurtures the baby’s instincts to get on the breast in the right way as well.
Emma Howard: Heather, thank you very much. She has fallen asleep now.
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