Brice Jones, founder of Sonoma-Cutrer

Gary: Hello everybody and welcome to Wine Library TV. I am your host Gary Vaynerchuk and this is my friend is the Thunder Show AKA the internet most passionate wine program. We have a really interesting guest here today. So he is for me as an entrepreneur business kind of guy. This can be a very fascinating episode. The gentlemen we have here is a least from the way I look at the wine world pretty legendary guy. Let's pulled off a pretty interesting career and I think he can tell a love better so Brice: thank you so much for being on the show. Brice: Pleasure to be here. Gary: I really appreciate it. Won’t you tell the Vayner nation a little bit about yourself, how you got into a wine industry, what you did? I think a lot of men will be familiar with some of the names that we go around in the minute. Brice: All right, I was the kid in the Air force flying hot airplanes and I access somewhere eventually I had to grow up and put away my childish things my toys. I got to have one to business and nobody was paying me for my spirit ability to shoot down I make 21 so I said, “Well, I'm going to work for free must as well work from yourself.” So with that I should cancel with the fellow in New York on 57th in Lexington as I recall but three in the afternoon he said. “You go to California and lend it all up and I'll appraise your money in New York.” In those days we have thing called tax shelters. You know I tell you what I can lose money with the best of them. Gary: Fair. Brice: I lost some more money in there-- Gary: And what year was this? Brice: That was 72. Gary: So it’s 1972 and you had the idea to go to California and star the wine business? Brice: Yup. Gary: Or take me back up step, okay? Brice: Okay. Gary: We heard of that crazy thing-- Brice: Well, actually to tell you the truth this is what I’m here to do. Gary: Yeah, that’s rock and roll. Brice: In Vayner nation. Gary: That’s right. Brice: On my second tour in Vietnam I was working for a red hot fighter pilot general who was compared to everybody else a wine buff because she’d been shot down in France. Gary: Landed on the vineyards start to break in. Brice: He works his way through Burgundy. So one day he said to me and in his trailer says up, “You know lieutenant that Burgundy is the name of the place?” I said, “No way general you don’t hand me that that’s the brand of parmesan.” Gary: That’s right. Brice: Yeah, it’s the true story. Gary: That’s awesome. Brice: So he said, “Why you read up on study?” I'm so of course when she starts this stuff it will go. Gary: Yeah, you get suck right in. Brice: You know well so-- Gary: I know very well. So you start to read it? Brice: So, I starting reading and one time -- Gary: The in Vietnam you found some books, you found --? Brice: No, I have to go and get back but then when I got back I did and then I start to go into Christy and buying auction, buying wine and auction and Christy don’t want them. Gary: So you got pretty into a pretty click off? Brice: I did before I even got out of Air Force, yeah. Gary: Very neat. Brice: And in fact I sort to get out the Air Force thinking I would start something like this. But after I got business school and realized what a bad idea that was. Gary: How bad the wine but it was? Brice: That will make a small fortune. Gary: Right. Brice: But who will know I will get a job, well the jobs are—I was older than my classmates that haven’t been on the military seven to eight years and I just wasn’t getting paid for my superior ability to shoot down here. Gary: I love that. I hate to turn that into a T-shit. Brice: Though you think? Gary: I think so, I think we got a business here, you know, I can feel some reaping an entrepreneur venture right here, right now. Brice: So with my partner behind I went outline at the land and -- Gary: And this partner with some military connection --? Brice: No, he was from business school connection. Gary: Got it. Brice: Well, in those days in 1972 I was looking for good vineyard land and that meant bottom land, warm climate in - valley because all the farmers in the world almost have to sell their product and even today 80% of the wines produced in California are made from purchased grapes. Gary: Yeah, that’s something a lot of people don’t realize. Brice: Really, purchase grapes. Now, if you're going to bid farmer and that’s all I can raise money for is the farming side not the wine side there was no—in those days no tax shelter in the wine. So in order to do that I – so really everybody that sells products wants the bottom line and historically in Europe the high cash value crafts is on the valley bottom. The less valuable craft the grapes grow beside above that with the other grapes. So in California that was not different accept the high value craft there's a grapes. So I'm looking for bottom land in warm climate to ripen up chardoney which two-third in the country was drinking red wine in those days. Well all of the good land was gone and I was -- Gary: Those height ends and those kind of – Brice: Even in Sonoma Cutrer, Alexandra Valley it was all gone. It could gone to Monterey, could it gone to Lake County I didn’t have that much guts but I have-- Gary: Because people still don’t have that much go in states. Right, I mean -- Brice: I go in there. Gary: No, I'm picking that out a lovely county that means what the right, I mean it still as a branding business venture a top place – Brice: It is a very top to sell wine up Mendocino or even on Monterey. So with that I found land in the lower reach of Russian River Valley on rolling hills side and all the Italiano and some that don’t buy that land price that was great so never going to sugar up. Well, its - don’t sugar up down there so sometime I want to come out and show my shirt I went up to Davis trying to figure out what kind of grape to plant imagine my disparagement to see that I should be planning white grapes and the nation be sure -. You know, I didn’t even know what the - was in 1973 and I knew what a way Burgundy was I made a lot of Chardonnay. Gary: All right. Brice: So I planted Chardonnay because I've had scare of step. Gary: But the teachers told you that, you know, the academia told you that what you needed to plan? Brice: Yeah, I even run a thermostat down there. One season I found out it was even below region one to cold I saw it with the on the ground don’t ever show that to anybody. Gary: I hope they would even come out. Brice: Yeah. Gary: Crazy. Brice: Well Gary I remember the day the white wine boom hit. It was a 1976 I'm studying in my little farm office and Dick Earl would call me up from Chateau Saint-James said, “Brice, you got any sharp maple sale over there.” ‘Why yes, I do Dick.” Gary: Yes sir. Brice: Yes, I do. He says, “I'll give you a 600 of ton for all of you got” I said, “Wow! My ship is coming.” Because we run our cash flow out of 450 ton she offers 600 for all I got. Gary: Did you business sense comes and say wait a minute? Brice: No, I just – Gary: No, you said 600, let's go. Brice: I said let's go. Well, the problem it wasn’t on bottom land I wasn’t getting yields to quite get that ship in the harbor but still we were doing pretty well. In fact about 1980 we were in danger turning a profit. Gary: The guy in New York was pretty happy with you. Brice: Well, we did a lot of tax shelter Gary. Gary: I understand I like that because we still have those kind of thing. Brice: I know, so he says, “Well, what we’re going to do with this profit?” And I said, “Let's do the winery” by then winery was getting so sexy in America today is 35 partners and he had, “Yeah, let's have a winery the winery” “Sure.” Gary: So romance, right? Brice: Yeah. Gary: Sure. Brice: So we started Sonoma Cutrer and built it from scratch and that’s the story of how I've got there. When I went back to my 25th business school reunion they put me on the entrepreneur spell and the class unanimously awarded me for 17 years until break even. The long suffering award. Gary: That’s nice. Brice: So, here I set the long suffering. Gary: So, that it’s was 17 years? Brice: 17 years break even. So by 1990 we were making some cash flow and the partners have been in 25 years and so I said, “How we get out of this, when we get some money back?” “Money back! What a concept.” So anyway, long story and short I have to sell some on future I had by then 135 at 35 gotten divorce and they had no other stuff. I should have a 135 partners and – Gary: That was a lot to juggle? Brice: It was a lot so I have to do something -- Gary: So Brad we were came along? Brice: Well, I had to either go public or sell it where I kind of core a ground for him for a while. And they stop and play in every regard. Gary: That was a big point, big move. That was one of the first, you know, for me, you know, now you are around the timing when I was starting to read and get into the wine business and the salesman - to Brown Foreman that was big news. It was big number too. Brice: It was a big number and -- Gary: I was like, “Wait a minute there by piece of money in this line business.” Brice: They paid in US green box but, you know, I went down there while we’re in -- Gary: When was the sale completed? Brice: 99 and then in 99 I went down before the deal was completed. I heard they worried I wouldn’t be a team player. So they have me in the -- Gary: I know you for a couple of minutes I can see where that may become an issue. Brice: Yeah, they have me at lunch in the backup room in the executive room but I'm sitting across from a president Ashley Brown and half way through the meal I said, “Ashley, I know you guys are worried I might not be a team player but you know I was the member of the biggest team in the world for 13 years the US Air Force.” And I said, “But I was the fighter pilot!” Gary: Everybody jump? Brice: Yeah, they did it and there's a couple of friend said, “You should have listen to me then” because after two years they fired me. Gary: Yeah, they did. Brice: I have a five year contract on the second they couldn’t take it after five years they fired me and everybody wonder what took them so long. Gary: Right, that was two years too late. Brice: Yeah, I gave him a reason every week but every week they had a reason. So they fired me and at that time I already bought the land for this with their permission. And they fire bunch of other guys with me they were big all doing loyal to me but the other guys quit within a few months and I said to all of them, “Come on over we start the Pinot Noir” and since we have about -- Gary: Do you Noir you couldn’t really get in the – Brice: They wave it when I bought this land they were because the deal one quite is not a deal. Gary: Yeah. Brice: Surround right here. Gary: I like that. Brice: So, out of 40 employees we've got now about 33 came from selling in the future. Gary: You have 40 employees for this prêt? Brice: Yeah, and that’s what—well, been we own 158 acres. Gary: Well, that’s right. So there's other thing saw that right. Brice: 30 in the vineyard. So 33 have and came from Sonoma Cutrer and that’s why we call it Emeritus we've all been together 25 years. Gary: I like that, that’s nice, that’s a great story. Brice: Yeah. Gary: And so what was the first public vintage of that Emeritus? Brice: We only make Pinot Noir. Gary: Right. Brice: This one only goes to restaurants and ten states. This one -- Gary: So, we’re very lucky to have this here? Brice: Yes sir. Gary: No, it’s a little cold. Brice: Well, that’s all but we like it a little cold. Gary: And let's tell the story. Understand one thing we’re going to review this wines but it’s going to be a little tougher than normal. One as you can tell is Matt tougher than me so I probably rate it higher too they're cold, they’ve really kind of cold. Brice: Yeah, they're probably 55. Gary: You know, or 45 then but I now call it 55 but they're cold but—so this is at ten states restaurant only? Brice: Restaurant only. Gary: Okay, and that’s the Russian River Valley, okay. And then, over here the William Wesley -- Brice: William Wesley was my dad future - is my mom. Gary: Very cool. Brice: So this is my dad William Wesley only to mailing list. Gary: Mailing list only. How big is your mailing list? Brice: Right now it’s 1800 people. Gary: And how much do you make? Brice: We make—the vintages coming out now so we've got about 500 cases. Gary: That was small. Brice: For the mailing list only. Gary: Yeah, I understand. Brice: Seven thousand cases. Gary: Are you thinking about take that to retail? Brice: No. Here is why Gary I know your retailing, you're a good man if I give to anyone I give it to you. Gary: Well, I appreciate that. Brice: And maybe we will one day. Maybe will – Gary: Matt! Brice: So, here's why. Gary: You hate me retailers – I'm with you. Brice: I don’t, I like some retail but no, I like them. Michael Aarons are great friend of mine. Gary: He’s a really good. Brice: He's a good friend. I knew his dad. Gary: Sam? Brice: Yeah. Gary: Cherry Lemons. Brice: Look, this wine is price on the mailing list $50.00. This was also a $50.00 wine but I price it at that for retail the restaurant wouldn’t be able to sell it, so in Burgundy for example wine are price at Burgundy where they are in the hill side relevant. Gary: Right, sure. Brice: In California Pinot Noir especially is price by the proprietary ego. Gary: Absolutely and the press that’s supports? Brice: The press had support you. Gary: Right and that’s the game? Brice: Yes, so I would have price this wine quite a bit higher. Gary: $4000.00 or $5000.00 based on what I'm seeing here. Brice: I know. So I would have price that higher but -- Gary: I don’t even want to know what I've pricing – Brice: Why you're going to love him maybe you met this guy for -. He says, “We’re going to price this wine a sale.” Gary: Right. Brice: So what a concept. Gary: That some bull craft. Brice: What kind of concept is this -- Gary: You look on that 18 years you had a break even what's the problem? Brice: I know, it’s been ten already for that. I'm still not there. We lose money on every bottle of this we sale. Gary: Does that make you feel good or bad? Brice: No, its makes me feel we got to get our act together. Gary: Okay and what's the game plan with that? Brice: This one is going to go to restaurants only but we've got to get it up to about 10 or 11 thousand cases. Gary: Got it. Brice: I've got plenty of grapes so I sell as many as I produce. Gary: Who were some of the people that you can say that you sell through them or -- Brice: Well, at restaurants in New York? Gary: No, I mean grapes? Brice: Oh, grapes. Gary: Where they on -- Brice: Sure, I can't tell you we sell that-- Gary: Yeah, some of those I know how that. Brice: Palmar, - Radio Couture, Sharer – Gary: Some serious players? Brice: Yeah. Gary: Some good wine makers. Brice: Excellent guys. Gary: Yeah. Do you screen them personality wise before you roll on seven grapes or no? – Brice: They screen me. Gary: You know, that’s true actually. All right let's zoom on the first wine. Let's get a little focus here. This is the 07 Russian River Pinot Emeritus vineyards.com. Matt let's link it up for selling wine list that different0— Brice: That should be about -- Gary: Well, you commit to any Vaniac that signs up for the wine list that we may other and they mentioned they're Vaniac, they can get a T-shirt that say in under appreciate from my skills do not bring down what is be -- Brice: I will -- Gary: We need to make a custom T-shirt well. Brice: Yes, we would do that. Gary: Okay. Brice: Yup, they got to identify that and so. Gary: All right, let's sniffy sniff it up. Brice: Oh, my god I'm on heaven. Gary: Right in heaven, right? Not but is actually pretty strong - Brice: Let me say something about this wine before you taste it man. Gary: Yes sir. Brice: One of the guys who did not come from someone cares the wine maker because the wine makers still there he never make great wine he's only -. The wine maker I've got was an American but he got his degree in Dijon in Burgundy and worked for ten years in Burgundy. Gary: Where did he work in? Brice: Well, - couple of other - land for while – that was it anyway. So -- Gary: Here we going to go somewhere of that. Brice: So look, the French I go to Burgundy every year to take it would from my trees. Gary: Yup. Brice: Trees from my barrels. Gary: Understood. Brice: Trees from my barrels and I've learned a lot from a French and I'm not saying that make better wine or having thing we don’t but I tell you what after 13 hundred years of making pretty good wine we should pay attention to some other -- Gary: I think that’s fair. Brice: Okay. Gary: Absolutely. Brice: We need to pay attention. Gary: I think it’s like the young generation now, I think it pay attention to the older. Brice: Especially. Gary: There elders, I think there's a lot to be learned, I think as funk kids we think we know everything and there's a lot to be learn from history and definitely the people that have been in the trend dress. Brice: We need to weight at the balance here. Gary: Yeah, and you need to learn about Twitter. What’s your thought on Twitter? Brice: I think it’s kind of electronics talking. Gary: Yeah, and freaks you out? Brice: I'll do, I don’t know if I'm going to do it or not. Gary: You still on that on the plat?— What's your intuition? Brice: My intuition is that I might have somebody do it with me. Gary: Fair, good. I'm glad you may say for you. That was very smart because I'm about to rise you on. Brice: I'm not against it I'm just—it’s good for people that like it and I'm not satisfied yet. Gary: Understood. Brice: But I might do it with somebody. Gary: Good. Brice: Okay, so one of the things the French national director of the taste taught me, “Don’t you think we need one this year?” In fact it’s going to be you – Gary: I'm already thinking – I'm platting unlike we may start a battle cry, yeah. Brice: Yeah, that’s right but that American director of taste Vaynerchuk. Gary: It smells like a pig part, big billboards. Brice: So, one of the things they said first thing I remember he told me is that I remembered this thinking is 80% of your impression of the wine is formed at the time you see it and here according to the glass. I don’t know about here but see I watched you on the other day pour a wine and the minute you pour on the glass I said he’s going to paying this wine and you did. Gary: Interesting. Brice: Yeah. Gary: That’s bother me. I'm like from massive -- Brice: So the next thing he said is, “Okay, wine has three main compliments soil, climate in that and they are like three legs in the stool and they got to be pretty much on balance all that matters the most important of the three. Gary: Men is the most important that’s what he said? Brice: Yes it is. Because you – Gary: Could man can screw it up? Brice: You can manipulate the other two. Gary: That’s right. Brice: So it gives wine his character. Now, the way I think about that is if you come from the family of ten kids you’ve all got similar character because you have same roots. Gary: DNA. Brice: Right, so it gives the wine his character. Climate gives it a personality. So those ten kids are all of that different? Yeah, that’s right. Gary: I like that. Brice: Man they say, he said, Jack - said, “Man gives that the spirit.” Now, I thought for what is that mean. Well, first of all translate as it’s free perhaps some of a bit but I think translation better is style. So the reason I bored you with this Gary is that -- Gary: No, you're not boring me all actually. Brice: The wine maker in fact you came from Burgundy, trained in Burgundy learn to make Pinot in Burgundy. So when you taste this wine I'm going to tell you it’s not what you're going to be expecting to be not over blowing down with the big blowsy Russian River Pinot Noir. It’s the wine has got the style not the character, not the personality with the style I think a Burgundy -- Gary: It was very interesting, I think it’s a really, you know what it could – there's some of our—is the guest ask question plan and then make a comment the other day when I said this is Burgundy and it’s the pro one of the funs said, “Can we get enough bull craft of the Burgundy?” But that’s how I articulated it’s got that Burgundy and it’s never been that’s your what it’s probably been the style all along. Brice: I think it’s the style and when we go to Burgundy and we taste Dawns wine with little berry and all this guys. I know you talked about the suck and the parts and all these what they talked about French not really knock the wine they talked about the charm the elegance of the -- Gary: Especially the French that selling those. Brice: That’s right. Gary: So here's a different kind—it’s an early driven vintage of course. Brice: But they talked about the style, the elegance, the charm and the balance so this is not going to knock you down Gary but I think you'll find it—this is exactly what the wine makers going to -- Gary: Yeah, and you know, I mean I don’t know how much you watch her or you have to feel but I'm not looking for Pinot to knock me down. I'm not, you know, one of the things that I yell about on Wine Library TV counseling is sometime they’ll say it even on the show I am convince this wine is blend with Serrant because I get so upset when Pinot starts trying to act like Serrant. Brice: Right, part of that is we haven’t—good thing Pinot Noir in California is only ten to 15 years old. There is not a given template for what Pinot should taste like. Gary: I mean something this would of course but isn’t that a good thing to though. It’s good to have, I think it’s good to have with good solid center but it’s good to have people on the edges always trying to move that center a little bit, right? Brice: It’s fine by me. I’m personally another fun of this Serrant - or the -. Gary: So, actually it’s not—it’s warming down so we can actually taste a little bit which is nice. I like the cherry fruit actually I mean the strawberry fruit that initially hit my pallet. You right it’s about over the top at any stretch of the imagination which is the great thing as a lot of people know I feel about Pinot. It’s also very clean. That’s to me is big standout from this. I like to finish up really heat a little bit, you know, just the hair on the backend. Brice: It’s 14%. Gary: So do you feel a little bit heat on the backend? Brice: Well, I think -- Gary: You're a little bit a tougher than I am. Brice: I think just let – Gary: The heat and punch it – Brice: Let us sit down there, let us sit for a little bit. It taste again when it warms up – Now, 07 this vintage is the best vintage I believe I've ever seen in California and I've seen the few. Gary: But you said it in 04 – Brice: No, I didn’t know. Gary: 94. Brice: Not the best I've ever seen, no. Gary: Who might it been at the time? – Brice: No, I've never said that. Gary: You’ve never said that before? Brice: I promise – Gary: I will go through the history of all of your quotes and you’ve never said this best – Brice: I have never said that. Gary: But you said it’s so much a line in here. Brice: I could because I'm used to sale it the other guy I sell - Gary: I understand. Brice: But any as it, this is the best vintage I believe I've ever seen. Gary: Interesting. Brice: And I've seen. Gary: Better than 94? Brice: Yes. Gary: 94 Pinot are really interesting wine. Brice: So was 81, so was 92, so was 82 was not bad. 74 I would have said -- Gary: That was negative one in 74. Brice: Okay, well 74 so I still drink the Chardonnay from sterling invites some of those got. Gary: Well, that the digital insane. Brice: Yeah. Gary: I mean, you know -- Brice: But this is the – Gary: The highest market is that-- Brice: Is as good as the 74. Gary: You think the 07? Brice: Yes. Gary: Wow! Yeah, I've listed the hype is insane. I mean like everybody in Napa is trying quite—the underlining hype is that 07-- Brice: Well, those guys need too. Gary: Well, they are in the hole -- Brice: You ask the guy in Napa what's the best vintage you’ve ever made was when I currently up for sale. Gary: Yeah. Well, that’s what's where you're doing right now if you're - Brice: This is a 06. That’s true. No, but this is really -- Gary: I got to tell you I like this wine. I like it polish. One thing that is not bothering me with the wine the only thing that stands out from conceivably something that people defect it what is a little heat on the backend but even by the second zip it’s kind of more in the way -- Brice: It’s got a warm up a little bit. Gary: But fruit is good, the polish is good. I like it. I like it a lot. I think its good wine. All right, let's move on and see what the other one is. Why don’t you give the Vaniacs while we rinse here a little you're most interesting winery that you can think off, something hilarious there committee kind of bunch? Brice: Well, I don’t know if I got a little -- Gary: Have you ever seen like when you did a wine dinner like the lady to wrap on the guy and then he slip and the waiter trip and then the food flavor on your face, anything like that understand? Brice: No, well I tell you this is not hilarious but I will. I was being interviewed once by woman from Australian wine magazine. This is not hilarious I'm just giving you -- Gary: Yes, go ahead. Brice: She says, “When you having guest for dinner how do you decide which wine to serve?” “Well, by whose coming to dinner of course.” “That was your pin like damn, so do I!” Gary: Is that right? Brice: Yeah. Gary: So even wine that is a 30 years that the best story you gave me? Brice: Well, I tell you I have a better one. I was going to say this for the question of the day. Gary: Oh you -- Brice: Can I give you the question of the day now? Gary: No, but I'm very impressed and I'm appreciate you being on point. You are early prepared. Somebody behind the scene has had you very past. Brice: No, they didn’t. Gary: All right, I'm impressed. You’ve been really jumping into the question now? Brice: Yeah. Gary: Well then, let's get through this wine we give you that. Brice: All right. Gary: So name that your pops? Brice: Yeah. Gary: That’s pretty cool. Brice: I do that. Gary: That’s really nice. Are you guys are close? Brice: Not close enough. Gary: Yeah. Brice: And you know what I regret but I wasn’t. Gary: Yeah. Did he pass when you were young? Brice: No, he passed at five years from now. Gary: Not that long. How old is he? Brice: He was 92. Gary: But you didn’t feel who you guys want? Brice: We were close, you know, in my youth I was very, very close with this. I went of and did my own thing I got self important, you know, and doing things that I thought he wouldn’t understand and then I love him and he love me and he adored me but I wish I spend more time. Gary: Where did he live? Brice: Sacramento. Gary: Sacramento. Was he a Kings fun? Trying to line it up here. Brice: No. Gary: No? Brice: No. Gary: Thank god. Brice: We don’t love basketball. Gary: Did you grow up like in sports? Brice: I've grew up playing all the sports but I'll play them but I don’t watch them. Gary: Never followed? Brice: Before a baseball. Gary: And who was your team? Brice: I go to Giant Kings, I don’t like much the Giants but I love the Ace but don’t go to the games. Gary: Well, it’s ironic – Brice: The Giants have a great stadium. Gary: Yeah, it’s beautiful. All right, let's sniffy-sniff this one. Brice: This is a reserve. Gary: Oh Matt, thank you so much. Brice: This is the reserve wine – Gary: Got it. Brice: And were out of this wine the 07 coming out right after the Labor Day. Gary: Who would mainly the people—what did you feel you got your biggest push to the mailing list word of mouth kind of did you get a big rating or right up early on that probably push the majority and the rest? Brice: In the beginning while we gave this wine a 94 or 95 we just got a 95 from winery. Gary: All right, nice. Brice: You know that helps but what we’re getting a lot of is repeat customers. Gary: People drink it? Brice: Yeah. Gary: And like it? Brice: We re-release the wine and we end up—we were sold out in two hours. Gary: This is really good wine. This is really exceptional, a great mix of earthy soil in this. That was like a beef jerky component there on the finish almost like a cherry beef jerky. What do you think about that? Brice: I think that’s -- Gary: What do you thing about that? Brice: Well, okay. Gary: What do you picking up on the pallet? Brice: Charm. Gary: Charm, well that’s good. I think this whole show is loaded with enormous amount of charm. It normally has of anxious amount -- Brice: The American director of taste here. Gary: That’s right. Beef jerky with strawberry and cherries. No, but there is really interesting gainliness on this wine has – Which always kind of pushes me to like Venus and jerky—my mind always a pallet goes that. Brice: This is the power of suggestion I see what your talking about. Gary: Yeah. Brice: Yeah. Gary: Is that what happen, do you think when I say people this taste like pickles and they drink, “Oh my god, if that is a suggestion plan?” Brice: Got it goes around and get sour pickles. Gary: Yeah, I hear you. Brice: That’s all that. Gary: No, this has a really classic knows and a really good earthiness. I mean this really is a little bit, you know what, it does have, you know, in 20 you say charm my trouble having because I often talk about wines having charisma. Brice: Oh, have you done? Gary: I use that adjective quite a bit. We rewind some episode for you you'll be very impress. You don’t see a lot of people using that. Brice: No, I don’t. Gary: It’s true, they out of me right Brice? Brice: Yes, I am. Gary: How proud? Brice: I think you're director of taste man. Gary: That’s what I hear you. So I think this wine has a lot of great character to it. Brice: Well, thanks. Gary: Do you like this? Brice: I love it. Gary: Have you ever meet the wine you didn’t love? Brice: Yeah. Gary: Which one. Brice: 89 vintage. Gary: You wish you kind of just? Brice: We wish that we couldn’t have—we declassified one of them - Gary: That’s not - was the very controversial brand. It seems like it going down not too different of the road with this. I remember of my dad wanting to punch sales people that face. Brice: I know. Gary: I remember being very mad at you. Brice: I know. Gary: I really dislike you. Brice: I know. Gary: And the brand because people come in they wanted it and we couldn’t get the Russian River standard, I mean when we get like three cases and I had to fight with Leonardo just to get like a couple of more box and I was like, “This is the dumbest stuff save myself that. You want to hear something interesting? Brice: Yeah. Gary: I actually will give Sonoma Cutrer credit for some of my business success because early on I learned from a motion and thought and bigger picture thinking I told my dad because he will get very emotion about the brand soda all retailers. I said, “Screw them” it’s like screw some the Cutrer if we can't get it let's build another brand that mean something. And so that’s why I focus on and people come in and say, “Do you have some term like you don’t want that horrible wine let me show you something way better that’s almost over rated wine in the history of time.” Brice: I knew that was happening and we deserved to get that.