Dealing with Multiple Births

Catrina Skepper: Having your first baby can be a bit of a handful, but what if you have two babies, or even three? Well, it could be completely overwhelming. Take a look at these two. Mary and Stanley making lots of noise for us. They are just three-months-old and their parents Mark and Cheryl Hemmings, and Helen Forbes is also here. She is Director of TAMBA, the Twins And Multiple Births Association. I can see you've got your hands fold, that goes without saying. But Cheryl for you in the last three months, nothing could probably prepare you for the - for just the handful of having two. Everything you have to do, you have to think twice, or do twice, how has it been? Cheryl Hemmings: It's been pretty hectic. It's calming down now, but I will say the first six weeks was awful, really hard. Catrina Skepper: Did you actually think before-hand that it was going to be as difficult, had people helped you and prepared you for this or the feeding schedules, things like that, that you probably had read about or talked about with other friends and people that you knew? Cheryl: Well, I'd read all the books, and I thought I was really prepared and I'll put food in the freezer and I've to clean it on coming to the house, but nothing prepared me for it really. Catrina Skepper: And why? What is such a life? What is so difficult about twins? Cheryl Hemmings: You never get anytime for yourself ever, and even if you try to make it, you get head up about it, so you find yourself always with the babies constantly. Catrina Skepper: I am just looking across to Mark at this very, very beautifully sleeping daughter, she is really having a lovely time. Do you think that's the father's touch? Mark Hemmings: I didn't like to think so but I am sure it isn't. It's not always like this. Catrina Skepper: No, but what for you, because always you had time nine months to think about the arrival of the twins, but we do say, you've adapted well and do you find that you have little time left between you. Mark Hemmings: I think we have adapted well. We were expecting it to be hard work, but nothing could really prepare you or you could really imagine, what is actually like to have the two twins. Everything goes on hold. You don't really have time to do anything rather than look after them. Catrina Skepper: You barely have time to go out and shop, actually get food for yourself. Mark Hemmings: Just taking to baby shopping is a real adventure and it's only something that what we do occasionally, don't we? Cheryl Hemmings: Yeah, I mean I can cope now taking the two of them around the supermarket. That's fine. But if you want to do anything like go in the garden, do some gardening or actually go to shop for yourself, you are just not going to -- it's not going to happen. Catrina Skepper: Now what about the Sleep element, because I know what it's like with one, when you've just got to sort of worry about one waking up and feeding one, but that must be very hard on both of you, because you are sharing the responsibilities also? Mark Hemmings: It took us a while to get into the first night home from hospital, we didn't sleep at all. We are awake all night. And we tried to but it didn't work out. We have them in bed with us, but after that it gradually improves, but the first couple of months are really, really hard to work. We tried -- Cheryl was doing this sort of night time feeds and I was going to sleep, because obviously going to work the next day, but it actually doesn't work and it needs two of us up at night. Catrina Skepper: To be handful, hands-on. This is probably where Helen you can be of a help really, because TAMBA - Helen Forbes: Oh that's great for me. Catrina Skepper: -- yeah, all these questions you heard before. What exactly is TAMBA and what work do you do? Helen Forbes: Well, TAMBA is a national charity that was set up over 25 years ago actually to support parents who realize that there actually was very little information out there. They perhaps have never come across the families with twins or even triplets. And so the charity started to provide the information and that support, and to reassure people and help people through the very experience, as the Cheryl was been describing, that's sort of feeling of total exhaustion of how will I cope, can't get out of the door. And we provide service like a helpline. People can pick up the phone, talk to another parent who has been trained to listen and give supportive information. We have publications, we also support in all sort of ways. Catrina Skepper: It's support, but do you find that that translates into what I would call a practical result so that the mother feels able to cope, but also genuinely is able to do more in the space of her day and her night. Helen Forbes: Yes, absolutely we encourage people once they find out or they are expecting a multiple birth. To prepare and to be as organized as possible beforehand, because I think organization and routine is the key for a family. Catrina Skepper: Things like what you are talking -- getting help obviously. Helen Forbes: Yes, I mean obviously if you can afford paid help in the early weeks, then that's great, but there are lots of other options that we can help people think about. There is another charity called Home Start, for example which office volunteer helping the home. People think about perhaps having an old pair or getting family members to come and help. And we also have a network of twins clubs around the country. And then mums whose perhaps their children are slightly older, they can often help parent in the early days when there are two or three babies, coming home from hospital, it's a lot of work. Catrina Skepper: They've been through the focus. I mean going back to this feeding routine and obviously the changing and doing incredible amount of work that baby's bring, because there is the washing, there is everything to do with getting the bottles prepared or if you are breastfeeding obviously how -- did you actually breastfeed them? Cheryl Hemmings: I breastfeed them first six weeks. Catrina Skepper: Did you? Cheryl Hemmings: Half bottle, half breastfeed. Catrina Skepper: And was that -- you also wanted to breastfeed? Cheryl Hemmings: I wanted to breastfeed, it's physically draining. It really is hard. I didn't produce enough milk so I couldn't actually continue because I am -- but -- Catrina Skepper: Probably through exhaustion, wouldn't they? Cheryl Hemmings: It probably was actually because he wasn't really sleeping much at all. Catrina Skepper: But they got the benefit of the breast for the first six weeks. Did you use to feed them at the same time? Cheryl Hemmings: I did. The first time I did I got Mark to take a photograph, I can do this. But I did. And then sometimes it was just easy to do one-on-one, if you can it's easy to do the two together and then you save time. Catrina Skepper: Do you find that twins, obviously, that you've got boy and girl that's immensely clever of you but do you find that they have the same sort of routine in terms of sleep and feeding or they are hungry and sleepy at different times. Cheryl Hemmings: I would say that this one is an easier baby, Merry. She sleeps very, very well and she feeds very well. Catrina Skepper: She is slightly bigger as well. Cheryl Hemmings: She is because she actually likes to feed more. And Stan doesn't actually sleep so well at night. So Merry now will sleep a good sort of five-to-eight hours at night where as Stan still wakes up sort of every three hours or so. So they are very different. Catrina Skepper: It's quite daunting for any father to have a newborn in their arms and feeding. Not everybody can do it. So when you had this thought what was the thing that you immediately got a hold of? What was the thing you enjoyed doing the most from day one? Mark Hemmings: I did enjoy the feeding when I could actually be involved, because obviously when Cheryl is breastfeeding then you can't get so involved, and you can actually hold the bottle and take a bit of the work really as much as anything then that's helpful, but actually just get in the home and looking after them is really lovely and to have -- you get twice the enjoyment really. When there are hard times and you do get tired and you can forget about your own personal life fast to go and hold, I think. But the benefits are wonderful. Catrina Skepper: And what about the practical issues, I mean things like you mentioned really how hard it is just to get out of the house and take two with you everywhere you go, things like finding the right pram. Did you have wishes with that? Cheryl Hemmings: It was pretty hard. Catrina Skepper: Knowing how to collapse the buggy. Cheryl Hemmings: Does it fit in the car? Catrina Skepper: We know that Russell Crowe doesn't do it very well. Mark Hemmings: The first thing we sort of have to measure a lot always to make sure they would go through our doorways for a start and we did sort of -- Catrina Skepper: It's hard enough for the single buggy actually to get through the doorway. Mark Hemmings: It is, yeah. The double buggy do vary in widths quite a bit. So we did a bit of a research before we bought one, but we are very pleased with the one we did buy. Cheryl Hemmings: Yeah. I mean the local TAMBA rep did send me, emailed me information about what products were available which was useful. And we moved side-by-side simply because I tried to steer the ones that are forward and front and back and I couldn't actually steer it very well. Catrina Skepper: It's like the trolleys in supermarkets, it doesn't work. You just mentioned the TAMBA represented it. Is that something that's -- is there a register that people from TAMBA know where twins have been born or is it really up to the mother or the father to get in touch with you? Helen Forbes: TAMBA is a membership organization and we rely a lot for our income and running our services on membership subscriptions. But I've mentioned this register of twins clubs around the country, so people can choose either just to get in touch with a local club, assured it. Catrina Skepper: Which would be free, they wouldn't have to be a member. Helen Forbes: That's right and that's often antenatal supporting and meetings. If they become a member, they obviously get the other services of TAMBA and help us to actually sustain the charity services. Catrina Skepper: You have a magazine as well presumably. Helen Forbes: Yes, we have a members' magazine, and we have a team of consultants who are professionals from health and education field who can offer specialist support to families, who perhaps have complicated situations and the local health professionals aren't so experienced in dealing with multiples. So we can put them in touch with other experts who can help them. Catrina Skepper: Do you find that you get asked a lot of medically related questions from mothers who are pregnant with twins like, will they be identical? How will I know? What sort of things? Helen Forbes: Yes, there is an awful lot of old lifestyles about how twins come about? Do they run down the mother's side instead of the father's side, all those sorts of things? So we can put people straight on a lot of those things and people are often reassured to know that. There are other people of their age or other people who've already got children who've gone on twins and triplets and hopefully survive -- Catrina Skepper: It's obviously on the increase because of the IVF treatment and multiple births and they are on increase. Helen Forbes: Yes, multiple births, they are on the increase and that's not only due to IVF and improvements in assisted conception techniques, it's also due to the fact that a lot of women are starting their families later, and in late 30's you have a much high chance of conceiving multiples, so that's what we are seeing an increase as well. Catrina Skepper: What sort of percentage of births are multiple at the movement, in the national average? Helen Forbes: I think it's something about 1.5% of all maternities which actually equates to 1 in 67 pregnancies, is a multiple pregnancy, which is quite high, yes. Catrina Skepper: Which is quite a lot. When your twins, do you mind me saying off from as a result of IVF treatment and a very, very happy moment that must have been for you. Did you understand that that was probably just a medical thing that would not affect how you felt and how you relate it to the twins once they were born, were you worried about stigma attached to it? Mark Hemmings: Not at all. Cheryl Hemmings: Not at all actually, no. I haven't come across any and I wasn't worried about any either at all. Catrina Skepper: That's great. And when you actually turned to support with your midwife or during - did they explain to you anything particular that might be as a result of having had IVF treatment that you might need to deal with? Cheryl Hemmings: No, there is nothing actually that -- I mean I remember at the IVF clinic once I was pregnant they said, well, that's it. Catrina Skepper: Good-bye! Cheryl Hemmings: You need never mention it to anybody again, so it makes -- Mark Hemmings: It wasn't an issue at all actually. Cheryl Hemmings: No. Mark Hemmings: It hasn't ever been. Catrina Skepper: That's very, very good to hear because I think people do worry who are having IVF treatment that they are going to have some kind of stigmatized sort of attached to it. But what about the costs? I mean their costs obviously of having one single child are enormous, does that really come into it, does that play a part in your thinking day today? Mark Hemmings: I think you can't ignore it, but we don't think about it, because it's there and you have to have it. Catrina Skepper: Actually you can bulk buy, can't you, you can bulk buy. Mark Hemmings: We can. Cheryl Hemmings: You can. The initial outlay is more because you have to buy two cots. You have to buy an expensive pushchair. So there is initial outlay, but as you go along, I mean they share each other's clothes and we don't really feel we have to have more obviously more nappies. Catrina Skepper: What about the sleeping arrangements because I know that the twins can't be put in the same cot initially, was that something that you predict? Mark Hemmings: We tried, actually the first night at home from hospital we wanted them to be in the same cot and that lasted about two hours. And then after two hours we dragged the other cot through into our room so that they are in their separate cots. Catrina Skepper: But with you. Cheryl Hemmings: In our room, yeah. Mark Hemmings: In our room, yeah. Catrina Skepper: Now we also didn't know. Did you know that you are having a boy and a girl? Mark Hemmings: We didn't know, no. Catrina Skepper: You didn't know. Is that something they can actually tell in the womb in the scans the twins they can tell the sex. Mark Hemmings: Oh yes. Catrina Skepper: Obviously, yeah. You didn't know so that was a lovely surprise and obviously a very happy one. But when you decided to dress them for instance, no choice you are going to dress them in different clothes, but did you want to bring them together with an identity as because they are twins, did you want to make them --? Mark Hemmings: No, we treat them as individuals all the time actually. Cheryl Hemmings: I think the only thing that I do is I don't really have an awful lot of pink in the drawer, because I tend to just put my hand in, choose something and each, say Merry will wear a lot of blue just simply because and I've got my friends who give me a lot of boys' clothes as well. But that's probably -- Catrina Skepper: But from experience would you say later on that it's an important thing to not to try and dress them the same especially it's identical obviously, and to keep their identities, what advice do you give? Helen Forbes: I think that's right, very important, and personally I am a mother of identical twin girls and I did dress them the same in the early weeks because gave me lots of matching outfits and I don't have really sort of thought through the issues. But once they are older and sort of starting preschool and routing the world on their own that's when I sort of constantly started to think about their individuality and other people, friends, teachers treating them as individuals. Catrina Skepper: And did that follow through into the schools, choice system as well, did you did term that they would go to the same schools, or did you feel that they should be separated? Helen Forbes: They've had both experiences, they've been together when they first started school in reception and then they went through school, separated. But identity is very important. Some people have very fixed views about whether they want to preserve that twin identity that you were mentioning or whether from the outset that they are very definite that they want to dress them definitely. Catrina Skepper: And presumably there is quite a lot of research as well as twins later on in life and they are able to speak and express themselves about what it is that it means to be a twin, what would you say is the commonest link between when they are able to talk for themselves and speak their mind. What do they say, do they want to be identified as twins or individuals? Helen Forbes: I think it's sort of as twins grow up and not being into myself, I think it's sort of as children develop at different stages, they sort of see the benefits and the special bond at some stage and other stages. Like at stage my girls are at now - Catrina Skepper: They want to be. Helen Forbes: Yes, they want the space from each other, but clearly it's a very relationship. Catrina Skepper: Well, something you can obviously explore yourselves and look forward to and deal with day-to-day, but in terms of just coping at this stage, three months, first three months that's the most difficult, what advice do you find yourself having most commonly? Helen Forbes: Be prepared to try and stick to a routine. Don't say no to any office of help, and there is light at the end of the tunnel. People will get through it, but it is hard. Catrina Skepper: And do you advice to other parents things that you -- tips that you can now give seasoned twin parents? Mark Hemmings: Well, first of all enjoy as much as possible because it's just wonderful. And I think my advice would be, don't try and carry on with normal life because it's just not possible and I think you just end up getting frustrated. Catrina Skepper: So accept it, things are going to change. Mark Hemmings: Yeah, definitely. Catrina Skepper: Cheryl. Cheryl Hemmings: I think my advice would be definitely to get it cleaner. We'll someone else to just come and do all the stuff in the house that you can't do. If it's your neighbor or a friend, and I have done that any offer I have had I say, yes, please! Catrina Skepper: Fantastic! It has been wonderful having you all here today. Thank you very much for coming in! Cheryl Hemmings: Thank you! Helen Forbes: Thank you!