Early Days of Breastfeeding

Emma Howard: Hello! I'm Emma Howard and we're talking about breastfeeding here on the Baby Channel. With me is Heather Welford, who is breastfeeding counselor from the NCT and we've got Philippa and five-and-a-half month old Toby. Well, you two are doing very well. He's your fourth baby. Philippa Bennett: Yes. Emma Howard: You are in a very comfortable position there and clearly he is. But I want to talk about the early days of breastfeeding. Even though he was your fourth baby, you had quite a lot of problems with him in the beginning. Philippa Bennett: Yeah. I think it's very difficult in the first few days, especially the first day, because it's all so new and even though he's my fourth baby, all babies are different. Like every pregnancy is different, every birth is different. My birth experience with Toby was fantastic compared to my other birth experiences. So I did feed him quicker and earlier. I fed him virtually straight away. Emma Howard: She came together. Philippa Bennett: Yeah. So we bonded much more quickly I feel. But there're still lots of issues that I had with Toby that I didn't have with the others. I had very, very sore nipples with Toby. Emma Howard: Is that because he wanted to feed all the time. Philippa Bennett: Yeah. He's very hungry but he always has been since the first day he was born, very, very hungry feeding a lot and sort of almost ravenous, really quite scary. I did have very sore nipples in the first few days. But also all that, all the stuff about positioning and how to hold your baby, you do forget it even though it's my fourth baby, you do forget how you should hold them where their mouth should go, where your nipple should go, all this kind of stuff and it took me probably three or four days to get into the swing of it, to make it become part of a natural thing for me. Emma Howard: And on top of that you have these terrible after pains. Philippa Bennett: Oh, yes. Emma Howard: Didn't you? Your uterus was contracting. Philippa Bennett: Yes. I went on to the postnatal ward and started to feed Toby and had the most horrendous pains which actually felt almost identical to contractions and I felt for a second I felt perhaps I am having twins. They have left one there, because I have had twins previously, so I am, perhaps I am having -- they have left one there. But I was in real, real pain and when the doctors came around and the midwifes and that sort of thing and asked me do I need any pain relief for my vaginal area, and I was saying no, no that's fine, but can I've some pain killers please for my after pains are so dreadful. So it's something maybe Heather can find some, I don't know if -- Emma Howard: Well, I want Heather to comment on it because I know you'll be scaring a lot of new mums out there. It was your fourth baby. Philippa Bennett: Yes. Emma Howard: It does happen, doesn't it? The after pains are in a sort of spectrum out there. I didn't have the after pains that you've described. But if I go on to have a third baby maybe I will, although you just put me off. I mean, how common are these after pain feelings? Heather Welford: Yeah. Philippa has had it quite bad. I've had three children. I don't remember anything more than a little twinge and it was a long time ago. But I don't remember if they were as bad as that. But bottle feeding mothers get it is well because the uterus has to get down to a pre-pregnancy state but with the breastfeeding, it can be more acute for a period of time, because when you breastfeed you course a rush of oxytocin which is the hormone that makes our uteruses contract in labor and that's why it's more acute during breastfeeding times. But the good news is that it does pass the sore nipples as well that you have got. It can make breastfeeding really difficult at first and this is why positioning and attachment is so important and it's unique, if I look at this little nun. Emma Howard: He's drunk on milk. Look at him. And it's important to say that Heather you and I will be talking about positioning without the babies, the newer babies than Toby. But you are supported in hospital, aren't you? If you stay in, sometimes you are going to stay in for six hours, but even if you're there for that short period of time, someone will come around to try and to help you. Heather Welford: Well hopefully, in some hospitals there's a staffing shortage and you've to be quite assertive and don't expect that -- soreness is inevitable. If it's sore and with a big baby, big hungry baby like Toby who's dying to get in there and get going, it might be a little bit sore because his instinct is there to suck and swallow. But he has to learn how to get the breast on in a way that doesn't hurt you. He's not bothered off course whether it hurts you or not. Emma Howard: No he is not. We should explain, you are winding him now, I'm just thinking of first time mum's watching you and thinking what she's doing. Philippa Bennett: Winding is something which some people do and some people don't. But I didn't wind my first baby. He wasn't very windy but Toby tends to pass it quite a lot. Emma Howard: That's a little bit of sit isn't it? Philippa Bennett: Yes it's like undigested, sort of coagulated milk really. Emma Howard: So that's why this lovely muslin. Philippa Bennett: Yes this muslin, trying to catch them. Emma Howard: Oh! We've woken you up Toby. Philippa Bennett: And sometimes if I don't wind him, I don't always have to pat him. Sometimes just sitting him up vertically will help it to come up. But sometimes if I don't wind him, if he goes to sleep, he'll then rock around in his sleep and moan and not comfortable really. Emma Howard: Uncomfortable Heather, he's got some wind stuck in his stomach. Heather Welford: Yeah, it might be and isn't it great to see how Philippa had just sort of learned to do these. Emma Howard: Because she has been watching her baby. Heather Welford: Yes, she's just acquired this knowledge of what works for him, what makes him feel uncomfortable, what makes him feel comfortable and it's like these early days of learning when you are getting the positioning and attachment right, what might work for your previous children might not be quite right for Toby and we know that the breast has to get into the mouth that the nipple has to go back down the throat, not compressed between the tongue and the roof of the mouth. It might just be a little bit, a millimeter or two difference that really makes it sore or not sore as the case, then you learn to do that. It may not happen. It may not get together all at once but you'll learn to do it. Philippa Bennett: -- anyone of them at all because the soreness on my nipples passed very quickly. It seemed to be actually when my colostrum was there, not the full sort of let down of my milk, and I think once my milk started flowing which was on the third day. Emma Howard: And it seems to flow faster than colostrum, doesn't it? That's the experience I had, isn't that true? Philippa Bennett: Yes. Heather Welford: You get more milk, you get the colostrums turning to mature milk on the two, three, four, five days and the flow is faster. Usually, that coincides with the baby perking up, wanting to take a lot more, more frequently, I don't know if that's what you found Philippa. And the baby is learning to get an effective feed sometimes some mothers need a little bit of help in getting the baby positioned in a way so if it doesn't hurt. Emma Howard: I do think we need a lot of help in the beginning with that. Heather Welford: You can and don't be afraid to ask for it. You're not all going to be as confident as Philippa is at five-and-a-half months. Emma Howard: Well, exactly. Philippa has been down this road for a while and you do look very smooth together. You're moving him beautifully. He's happy, you're happy. But what would you say to new mums out there, we are preparing them for being difficult in the beginning, but why is it worth it? Why have you persevered with four children? Philippa Bennett: Yeah. I mean even the after pains, I have to say even though it was incredibly painful on the third day past and I was really quite glad because I was told that it was my uterus contraction and it would help my stomach to get flat. So that was one of the benefits of the after pains really. But really it's sort of -- I look at Toby and he's quite a chunky little chap. He's not a skinny baby at all, and he hasn't had anything except breast milk. And I look at him and I sort of think my goodness I did all that, it was only me, no other outside influence has made him grow this big. It's just being me and that really makes me persevere. Emma Howard: And but you feel happy looking at him now, five and a half months down the line. Philippa Bennett: Yeah. Emma Howard: And it makes you feel like a real mum. But don't you think those emotions can work against you in the beginning? When it's going wrong you think that you're failing as a mother, and that's the real problem with breastfeeding in very early days. Isn't it? Philippa Bennett: I think. Heather Welford: It's your responsibility really, it's down to you and that can feel a very, very difficult sort of burden or almost sometimes mothers feel it. It can be. But it does get better. There's help out there and the best part of it is that you can feel so good about yourself when you see this lovely chunky boy. Philippa Bennett: You are quite right, because in the early days, I think when you're pregnant there's lot of mums who want to breastfeed and then when it actually comes to it, it's a shock because they do expect it to just happen and it doesn't just happen. You do have to learn it. Although a lot of it is instinct from you and the baby, you do have to learn what you're doing. So I think really, like Heather was saying because a lot of the postnatal wards are understaffed, you really have to ask. If you get stuck, you've to shout. You can't just sit there and expect somebody to come to you and help you. You really must ask, and you can ring one of the breastfeeding counsellors on the phone, even from the hospital. All the hospitals have phones. Emma Howard: You can ring NCT don't you? The numbers are actually there. Philippa Bennett: You can ring somebody up, and they'll guide you through it. But please remember that everybody has been through it. Just because you see lots of healthy bouncy babies who are breastfed, it doesn't mean that everybody's found it easy. Emma Howard: I think that's the problem there. I think the breastfeeding is seen as so natural that people think it's automatic. But as you've been saying you have to learn it and the baby has to learn it. And I think that if you can accept that in the beginning, but you don't realize it as often, you just let this baby -- Heather Welford: Give yourself a little bit of time. Emma Howard: You need to, don't you? Cut yourselves some slack. Heather Welford: Be kind to yourself, yes. Emma Howard: And then you'll hopefully end up -- look at him; he's absolutely drunk on breast milk. Philippa Bennett: He is. Emma Howard: He is so happy and he is your biggest feeder so far. Philippa Bennett: Yes, yes. He's actually my heaviest baby and the one who has fed the most. So there you are. But he feeds very frequently and still a lot in the night at the moment, but I'm hoping he'll soon calm down a bit and give me some more sleep. Emma Howard: Well, you're looking very well Philippa and even though you're up in the night -- Philippa Bennett: Well -- Emma Howard: That's tough. Isn't it? Philippa Bennett: Yes, it's very tough, especially when you've other children as well, you have to -- but I think in a way it helps having other children, because it makes you keep going during the day and you live on the adrenalin a bit. But I remember going back to my very first baby actually feeling more tired in the day, even though he was waking me up less often and I'm sure it was because I didn't really have any other motivation to keep going. I could snooze when my baby was snoozing. But now I've other children, I've to keep busy all day. Emma Howard: Have to keep going and you're less anxious. Philippa Bennett: Yeah, exactly. Emma Howard: That first baby, you wondering all the time if you are doing it right. Well clearly you are, and thank you very much for bringing Toby and it feels wonderful to see him completely flowed by all that breast milk. Absolutely gorgeous and thank you, Heather.