Male2: And the HPV—the poliomavirus.
Male1: Is a big subject today.
Male2: That is a big subject and it is very common and it does not cause anything and the they come back and you treat them very easily and they go away, however the disease is there because there is no cure for any one of the virus.
Male1: Well, without giving a vaccine, it seems to be 70% effective. It cannot be full—
Male2: It is very important before they catch it.
Male1: But there is some concern about the vaccine. There is something—the kids are getting lightheaded, they are fainting. There is some concern about some deaths. We would be checking it very carefully and it seems to be safe and we recommending it, but like any fads in new vaccine, you have to be concerned that something is going to pop up down the road.
Male2: Yes, we do not know down the road what is going to happen—
Male1: We now have proof of 25 years experience that if we give to all these women—
Male2: It is brand new.
Male1: It is brand new. It appears it is going to work but that is something we are going to learn about, I hope that our lifetime, we all live to get our prostate cancer.
Male2: Let me ask you something. If you see a lot of these young girls and they do not have anything coming, would you recommend the vaccine?
Male1: We are recommending it, but we will give them a great discussion. The discussion is, we think it is safe. We heard about some deaths around the world and we are going to watch them respond on this—I think 11, two of them died we know from a stroke-like reaction, but they also had myocarditis. One of them was a 12-year-old girl that died. That bothered me. They had no explanation.
Male2: That is a very young age.
Male1: I know and it bothers me. In fact, we are checking all the deaths and actually, it is a good thing, I called the FDA. The guy was really nice to me. I spoke to some disease control. I can get to call back. We could go to the website. I called two pediatric neurologists. Sometimes, you get a vaccine and it is like an immune response—vascular and it can cause a stroke. There was some concern of chicken pox disease and maybe the vaccine could beat it. So there is a little bit of a flag.
So what I have done, and I want it mandated. As a pediatrician, I tell the parents, we think it is safe. There are some concerns, I think 4 million doses have been sold. There are 11 cases. One I cannot explain the way easily. The other, I think, there are other things going on, but it is a new vaccine. There are 3700 cases of pseudo cancer diagnosis in this cancer and 300,000 cases in the world. We may wipe out half those deaths from these cancers and this country could be a couple of thousand, three or four thousand a year against ten or 15 deaths, and I do not know—who do you sue if the governor mandates a vaccine and I have to give it to all of these kids and something happens to the kid, who is at fault.
So we really think it should be mandated. I think that you have had teenage girls, it should be I discussing with you the right way, which is—here is what we know. it is a new vaccine. We think it is going to do its stuff. There are some concerns. I would tell you what I know. I will keep you updated along the way. It is not a cheap vaccine. The disease is horrible.
We have a nice discussion. It is your decision, as long as we present the vaccine correctly. If you say no to me, after I give you all of those facts, I respect your decision. You say yes, and we go through it, nothing else to keep and if something happens, which we do not know about, at least I made a good faith effort and as you know, we know each other by 30 years, I like you.
Worry about our patients. I worry that I got up that day and I have a clear thinking in mind and made the right decisions, but I do not want it mandated and that is something that they have to know.
If I had to look at a mother in the eye, we gave you something that maybe I could have said no to if something happens to your kid, how would I get up the next day?
I will cry with the parent. And believe me, you will know, something can go wrong with any drug we ride for. The vaccine, any procedure and nothing to do if you are a good doctor or a bad doctor.
Every time you operate, there is an anesthesia risk, small as it is, there is still something and I know that if you enter surgery and something did not come out the way you thought, it would bother you for years and years because you care.
You never forget it.
Male2: You never forget it, but the only thing that bothers me with this thing is that, we tell everybody safe sex, unfortunately there is no such thing as safe sex with this because a condom does not protect anything. You can still get the disease—
Male1: You get HPD just by touching each other, that is because he keeps his finger near the vagina and it goes back and forth and it can spread without sex.
Male2: And the condom will only cover the penis, but it will not cover the area of the pubis, will not cover the testicles and will not cover the perineum.
Male2: You are a urologist. You do not want to see or hear about ever, cervical cancer. You know how terrible that is and death is horrible if they get a full blown case and you get a life, you get children that are female and you know about the vaccine and I know that you would check it out like I did. I had a victim and I sent her to a urologist, they consider—the FDA called me because I know a few people did. I am concerned.
I believe the vaccine is great, but how—do you know that they are talking about it and they give a shot. And you have to watch it for 20 minutes because they can collapse or faint. I never had a vaccine. I had to keep them in the office for 20 minutes. Because I worried about an allergic reaction. Maybe there is something else going on here.
Maybe it is causing a basal dilation, or maybe they are getting an immune response that is causing a dilation which eventually can cause an immune response that can make them more prone to get a stroke for two hours or two weeks later. So I think, I would be obligated to check it out.
And I am not comfortable. I think the vaccine is a great idea. Very expensive, but God forbid, if I ever gave that shot and a kid ever died and I gave that shot, how do I get up the next day?
And your father—
Male2: You feel very uncomfortable—
Male1: Thinking you are a father, how would you feel?
Male2: I would feel terrible.
Male1: And you know that your kids will get very little and you know how I used to get crazy.
Male2: I know that you took care of my kids.
Male1: And it bothered me and as fathers, we agree on one thing, but here is what we have to agree upon, we give the vaccine to the parent. It is their child.
Male2: It is their child and you have to respect their opinion and their decision because you told them at least that it is the parent’s decision.
Male1: I cannot be biased. I have to tell the parent. Look, this is a great new vaccine. Great ideas! Not proven, and in theory, it is great, but there is a little doubt and there is a company, Merck, Sharpe and Dome took 18 years to get the chicken pox to the market. They were a little concerned with contamination and they took them right off the market. There is not a company that takes the name and does not care. The vaccine division—they really care. I even spoke to them and then what concerns me is that they said; we checked it. We are comfortable, but we are watching them like a hawk, and I am sure that there some people sitting in some room at Merck, Sharpe and Dome having a little concern that there could be something else going on here, just like you and I am.
And if you know about this, the worst part is, the people do not understand it. They think that doctors are in it for the money. Because if you go to a medical school today, and your father is not rich, you are walking out with $250,000.00 in loans and then you try and go into private practice after your residency, another three or four years. You cannot do it. This is all. You cannot afford to do it. You work with someone at a salary, not high end, low end. A lot of doctors are worried to get the loans to give them. If you were to slip today with that kind of debt, and try to buy a house and get married, it is not easy.
So the people who are going into medicine today, I hope they are very, very dedicated because the rewards on them, except for one, when I get a mother or father through something like a cancer or something like a brain tumor or a meningitis. They have got nothing so much around, sometimes, the thank you is in not in the dollars, it is in their eyes and you know something, it makes me get up the next day and I know how you were and you were a chief resident the same time I was a chief resident, we had a terrible case—and you met the mothers. Someone was dying and I have got the adult guys over and you came down and run, we pulled someone through. No one cared if it was a pediatric case, we did not care if it was a case of this guy—everybody was involved because this was a kid and that is how people are.
Thank God there were and I was lucky that year. We did not have any horrible tragedies. No big terrible cases, but now, in practice, 33 years, I am giving a vaccine, there is some concern in my head. I think the company has told me the truth, that they tell me the truth and I still have doubts about it. Maybe they are missing something. I never heard you gave a vaccine and girls collapse in 20 minutes. You have to watch them. Maybe there is something going on here. Am I wrong?
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