Claire Bishop: Doulas are all the way to the United States and have been for sometime. In the UK we’ve been a bit slower and have been into the wonderful and incredibly helpful resources that a doula can offer new parents from giving support at birth to doing your ironing or cooking your meal as you look after the baby. Doulas are becoming the must have accessory for new mums and dads across the country. Now Jean Birtles runs the British Doulas and is joined by Karen Garner, a doula of 2 years and Isabel Henton who used Karen when her little baby boy was born in January. Welcome to everybody! Gene, let’s start with you, what exactly is a Doula?
Jean Birtles: Well, a doula can be two kinds of doulas. You have your post-birth doula who goes into the house when a mother has had a baby and she classes and cherishes the mother unlike a maternity nurse who would just take charge of the baby. Here the mother is being enabled to look after her own baby. She’ll do as you have said some washing, put the washing into the washing machine, take it out, put it in the drier, fold it, a bit of ironing but not his shirt.
Claire Bishop: You got to draw the line somewhere.
Jean Birtles: I know waking me up for the evening; I think that’s the most valuable.
Claire Bishop: So in a way it’s a bit like an amazing rental mom.
Jean Birtles: It is. It’s a surrogate sister, and it’s somebody who make her fresh to prepare lunch, who’ll make her fresh to prepare lunch for the toddler as well and whoever happens to be there. She’ll look after the baby while the mother has a sleep for an hour or two or goes to the gym.
Claire Bishop: In your dreams I think to the gym.
Jean Birtles: Yes, and generally helps to do a bit of shopping. She is not a trainer per se but she will do the dishes, clean the work services even mob the kitchen floor, and most of them will do a vacuum cleaner if necessary. So the mother has peace of mind in order to get on with what she’s doing the most important thing.
Claire Bishop: Is that a fantastic idea? Where does the word come from, Doula?
Jean Birtles: It’s ancient Greek and it means handmaiden or servant, but they are not.
Claire Bishop: It must be very difficult to know where to draw the line but I’m going to ask Karen about that in a moment. Let’s carry on what – you’ve mentioned post birth. What about during birth?
Jena Birtles: Yes, that also birth partners in the hospital or in the home and though that for as long as it takes, they’re not medically qualified or trained usually. So they’re there to do all those nice but that the dear midwives don’t have time to do handing the water, supporting her what she is delivering and so on. It’s a wonderful thing to have a woman there who has already been through the experience, who isn’t afraid and who will look after her partner as well and make sure that he has a meal or says you can have a sleep I’ll be here.
Claire Bishop: So that’s the main difference between a doula and say a maternity nurse. Now what about the difference between say a health visitor and a nanny, how does it differ from that?
Jean Birtles: Well, first of all a nanny that hasn’t usually had her own baby and she hasn’t been trained as a doula by midwifery trainers as our doulas have. She is in fact the person who’s been trained specially for the job whereas a nanny has been trained to look after many ages of children, just many ages and certainly isn’t being trained to look after the mother, which is the main focus. So that the mother is independent by the time she’s being there.
Claire Bishop: Okay, now I know Karen has been a doula for two years. Why did you choose to become a doula?
Karen Garner: I’ve always had the natural very, very strong motherly instinct and I’d love to do babies but I also like to care as a mother as well. I like to go in and facilitate mums always get the best deal. If one looks at the baby and caring over the baby and it’s quite nice to go in and see that the mums are okay. If the mums --sometimes they’re very, very busy at the beginning, they might not have lunch if you’re not there they might not have got anything till the evening. If I’m there I can also see what they’re doing and see what they eat and respond. So I say have you’ve eaten? Oh no, haven’t anything yet. So I might give them a nice sandwich and help them in that way.
Claire Bishop: And it must be very important now these days that people don’t necessarily live close to their families.
Karen Garner: That’s right yeah, and everyone has got their mum on their doorstep because it is a motherly thing and if the mum is not there then husband has got to go work, they’ve to go and earn their living and the mums are just all left, the little baby. They’re still too hailing from the birth and it takes about six weeks, isn’t it to really fully recover. So we go in there and you can just see what these are doing and you can see what they need. Some mums are just very, very tired. They might need to sit with the baby for a while and just while they got a little of sleep.
Claire Bishop: So it’s like being an expert friend really in times of need. Now Isabel I know that you employed Karen just after Gregory was born. Why did you feel the need for to find Karen?
Isabel Henton: Well, very similar to what Karen was saying that after giving birth I was just really tired out and worn out and just felt that we needed a hand with looking after Gregory and looking after me giving that my husband was going back to work fairly quickly after I’d given birth.
Claire Bishop: And it’s such a scary time as well, isn’t it?
Isabel Henton: It is. I think it’s a really emotional time and the nerve wracking time and you know nobody actually trains you on how to look after a baby.
Claire Bishop: A friend of mine said that it’s one thing you take home that doesn’t have instructions.
Isabel Henton: Oh no! And you know we had some hilarious moments with Karen. I was trying to learn how to use an expresso machine to express milk and it’s just hilarious, with Karen was great because she helped me even with things like that. She helped me just read the instructions and try to make head or tail a bit. But I mean it was just a massive help. I could almost feel my shoulders drop when she arrived because she just came in, took the rubbish out, decided to do what we need to do, as washing up, yes, have we got any lunching, no, well I’ll go to St. Basil and get some and it was just --
Claire Bishop: So how long did Karen stay with you?
Isabel Henton: It was just a couple of weeks.
Karen Garner: Yes!
Isabel Henton: Just a couple of weeks just to see me through the worst.
Claire Bishop: It must be very difficult to know when to say, no, no I can cope on my own because it just sounds so fantastic to have somebody on hand.
Isabel Henton: I know. I think had money been no object. I can’t pull a lot longer but I think it was we kind of agreed to the outset what it was going to be, but yes, it was difficult to say goodbye to her because it was coping on my own. But by the time Karen had done her work. I was feeling so much stronger and I just got used to the whole thing and it was really helpful.
Claire Bishop: Jean, I think he is in love with you. How long do most doulas get employed by?
Jean Birtles: 6 to 8 weeks normally and then by the end of that 6 or 8 weeks the mother should be standing on her own two feet and say goodbye happily to the doula?
Claire Bishop: And Karen I know that you’ve been a doula for two years but do you still keep in touch with your past clients or do you not refer to the clients as friends by then?
Karen Garner: Well they start off as clients, they end up as friends. No, I do keep in touch with most of them yes. I mean look at him. How could you not? I get invited to first birthday parties, on Christmas and all sorts of I love to see them anyway because I leave them when they are little tiny babies and within a little while they grow just so big and it’s lovely to see them growing up and see them all growing all well.
Claire Bishop: And other things that you won’t do? How do you draw the line at what is you’re prepared to do and what you’re not?
Karen Garner: I’ve never really had to draw the line. I think most mums realize that you are not actually a cleaner or anything like that but you’re happy to help out and do just move jobs around the home and I haven’t really had that hasn’t come across. I know nobody sort of said to me, we’ll go on the floor and scrub that.
Claire Bishop: What do you get on to that though?
Karen Garner: Oh! I just get 100% out of it. I love it. I really do love it and I’ve done a lot of jobs in the past but nothing has given me the satisfaction. I mean when I go away after the six weeks and I could see they’re happy and they’re settled. Their mums are breastfeeding well and everyone’s happy. It’s a lovely feeling. I think well, I helped them through the first few weeks and now they’re going to go on together and the baby is going to grow up and it’s lovely. And the same it’s with the birth. If I go with the birth and I can help that mum, support her through all the hard times that she thinks that she can’t go on any longer and I’ll keep her focused and at the end of it they’ve got a lovely baby. So it’s a same sort of a thing.
Claire Bishop: Jean, obviously Karen you can tell that she’s going to be a great doula but there is another truth? Does everybody make a good doula? How do you choose who is right?
Jean Birtles: It has to be somebody who’s loving, kind, and caring. It’s very simple but it’s not rocket science. They don’t need therapies. They don’t need apologies, just loving.
Claire Bishop: And is it important that somebody has been a mother before?
Jean Birtles: Yes, because they understand what this mother has just experienced and therefore she can empathize, she is there to listen and support.
Claire Bishop: So how do you find your doulas? Now they’re spread all over the country or --?
Jean Birtles: They’re spread all over the country. We have an enormous amount in London, but they are spread throughout the country. We still need more. We find them through advertising and each time they hear about doulas round the country, people phone them.
Claire Bishop: So how would people, if people are watching this and want to become a doula what should they do?
Jean Birtles: They would phone us at British Doulas or they would email britishdoulas.com and that way they’ll get us.
Claire Bishop: Okay! And then what sort of training do they go through to become doulas? I mean you obviously are trying to look for people who are great with children, but everybody is going to be able to that. So what’s extra training do you give them?
Jean Birtles: We give them training in birth, postpartum, nutrition for the mother, nutrition for the baby, the kind of little diseases that a child may have or may not have. They go through postnatal depression which some people have and any problems that there might be or that they might encounter, and very much on that course that told what not to do.
Claire Bishop: What sort of things should they not to do then?
Jean Birtles: Well, they don’t give opinions. They don’t talk about themselves. They are there to support the mother and they are there to listen to the mother, and that’s one of the things they’re told not to do. Don’t tell the mother what to do ever.
Claire Bishop: That must be very, very difficult. Karen, there must be times when you wanted to.
Karen Garner: Yes, there were times when most mums will ask you. They’ll ask you but we wouldn’t, you’ve to be diplomatic, you wouldn’t sort of – you can say some things that’s not right, and you shall say -- well have you thought about trying it this way or there are ways of saying things to people. But most of the time mums ask you and you give your advice and they take your advice. But if not I’m happy to do things their ways, it’s their baby at the end of the day and I just want to support them really.
Claire Bishop: You have to be very special sort of a person to be a doula, but is it a way to earn a living. How much do you charge?
Jean Birtles: It’s between 10 and 12 pound an hour to be a post birth doula, and then it’s between 250 and 500 to be a birth partner depending on experience.
Claire Bishop: Okay, and what sort of feedback have you had from your clients so far?
Jean Birtles: Well, the clients give feedback very similar to Isabel. It’s a very lovely service. It’s something that most people would like to have whether they’re having a baby or not. I remember coming home and there was nobody and we lived in the middle of plying woods. I remember being left for an hour because the midwives were just so busy in hospital and here’s somebody just for you. Just for you and your partner to look after you, and I think that’s valuable.
Claire Bishop: Why do you think it has taken so long for it to catch on the idea because I don’t think many people in the UK have heard of doulas?
Jean Birtles: I know although there has been so much -- although we have advertised the concept it still takes a long time. It’s really already 8 to 10 years old and it does take a while. When we think about it maternity nurses have been with us forever. So everybody knows about that. But this is new still. It’s progressing rapidly.
Claire Bishop: If I can go back to Isabel, if you had to sum up how much help Karen was to you, how would you describe her help and what the difference she made to you?
Isabel Henton: It felt like an emergency, although I know it’s a very normal situation to be home with a new baby and tired out, but it’s just I don’t know how I would have coped without her and it was actually a very special thing because it’s very intimate thing to invite somebody into your own home and it was nerve-wracking because I wasn’t sure whether we are going to get on or whether I was going to find it just another birth on top of everything else but it was absolutely brilliant and this is how I managed.
Claire Bishop: And have you recommended this to your friends?
Isabel Henton: Yeah, I think so and I think in past times most people would have staff in 19th century or whatever. It’s unusual I think for a woman to how to cope with a baby on her own, you meet to our culture and our time. So it was just a massive help to have something.
Claire Bishop: Well, it sounds a fantastic service and I wish you all the luck. So thank you all very much for coming in. I think Greg is getting ready to start crawling away aren’t you?
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