Emma Howard: Hello I'm Emma Howard and we're talking about breastfeeding here on the Baby Channel. With me is Heather Welford, from the NCT a Breastfeeding Counselor and we've got two moms with us today. We've got Kate with Penny, Penny is nine and a half month, and she's nearly 10, and we've got Deborah with Anna, who is seven and a half months. You do look very happy, and I know that breastfeeding is a joy to both of you now. I don't think it was always like that in the beginning, was it? Tell me about your beginning and why you decided to breastfeed, Kate.
Kate Gould: I would wanted to, because that's, the natural thing to do really and I know it's the best start for Penny as well. It gives her all that protection she needs from the common coughs and colds and it's so -- it's been much more convenient as well.
Emma Howard: And you don't have to carry on all that equipment.
Kate Gould: Yeah.
Emma Howard: And was it a shaky start or does it go fairly smoother?
Kate Gould: I was actually, I'm very fortunate, Penny got the idea very quickly and although I had a cesarean and I understand that it's quite hard when you have a cesarean to breastfeed. She didn't get in the way of my scar when she was lying on my breasts in hospital and it was just the case, the very night, I had to feed her, keep feeding her, every 20 minutes or so, because colostrum wasn't coming. But well I am frustrated.
Emma Howard: But really it's demanding, isn't it?
Kate Gould: That was hard work, get up very first night but because I have had the cesarean, I haven't been through a long labor.
Emma Howard: So, you have the energy?
Kate Gould: I did have the energy and I have the motivation as well because all the hormones kick in and you want to do it so -- and it worked out fine in the end and after that first night, everything started happening.
Emma Howard: And is very similar to you as well Deborah, that you were determined and you didn't have too much of the shaky stuff either, it went out quite smoothly.
Deborah Powers: No, I think the you know initial sensation of it and was, you know little bit painful but nothing, you know to be to worried about.
Emma Howard: And you got that quite quickly.
Deborah Powers: Yeah, probably more significant was having contractions for about week or so after.
Emma Howard: Well that's sort of kind of clamping down.
Deborah Powers: Yeah, feeling like labor pains again for about week or so after she was born and that was actually more painful, the beginning breastfeeding.
Emma Howard: Some of the -- and have this role could come along and say this is the where you always like this, and this and don't be worried.
Deborah Powers: Yeah, I mean I read about it beforehand, how to breastfeed beforehand
Emma Howard: Now what we say Heather that we're looking at two bonny little girls here.
Heather Welford: I think it's significant that Deborah and Kate seem to have got some good support in hospital. I mean you were helped were you Kate to, to feed Penny really often in the night and presumably somebody said, don't worry it will always be like this, you know this is just telling that it's going to pass a nuts. It's going to be reassuring to anybody who's perhaps a little bit nervous about breastfeeding. You know my goodness, is my baby looking to it every 20 minutes, every night.
Emma Howard: A feeling that you're doing all the time, that constant feeding, and that is so quite quickly. And another you think if this doesn't go away, I can't carry on doing this.
Heather Welford: So when is, if the positioning and the touch that isn't quite right, you can get so, and if you're baby is doing it frequently and she is not alright, then you're going to get, even more so, even more quickly. So that's sort of initial support, good information and encouragement and some practical knowledge and note the early days in hospital is really important for a lot of mothers, it makes a difference between getting through those early days and deciding that it's all, a lot of misery in switching.
Emma Howard: Yes and those early days are crucial, aren't they? Did you both just prefer one position breastfeeding your baby or did you lay down with them, to talk with them, did you find oneness, or did you move in the others.
Deborah Powers: I did, I have -- I almost stuck with the same one, right throughout, although I did like to learn, how to do it lying down on the bed, so that she could lay on her side and I could lay on my side.
Emma Howard: And what about you Kate.
Kate Gould: We had her in a moses basket next to our bed. So specially at the beginning after the cesarean, I didn't want to move around so much. So I stayed on my right hand side, next to her facing her, I manage just to pull her out.
Emma Howard: To lift her up.
Kate Gould: Lift her up, and push her on the breasts, so I was very much doing it from lying down right from the what go and then when I wanted to put her on the other breast, the higher one, then I have to have a pillow handy, so I put underneath before I pulled her out.
Emma Howard: So, you didn't even have to turn sides.
Kate Gould: No.
Emma Howard: Oh that's ingenious, ingenious. How many positions are there to breastfeed a baby, Heather.
Heather Welford: There a lots of. Well the common suit you.
Emma Howard: I am talking we want to go that.
Heather Welford: People find their own way and then and talking to other mothers about how they will found a way that's suits them, can give you lots of ideas. I mean the basic one, the basic ones is, the baby is closed to you on your lap hole and you are almost what's called the rugby ball --
Emma Howard: Have you ever done, what they call the Rugby ball feeding position.
Deborah Powers: I don't think I'm tall enough you know, to hold in lap long enough to hold in that way. I'm not really fond of to get that.
Emma Howard: Do you think that is -- that's a good technique.
Heather Welford: Just technique find your own way.
Emma Howard: And feeling comfortable with it.
Heather Welford: Yeah, just feeling comfortable and what works for one person won't work for another, so it's worth experimenting.
Emma Howard: And you two, you're happy breastfeeding now you're here about with nearly 10 months and seven and a half months, have you in your mind decided that there's a cutoff point. Look at these, they are very happy together.
Kate Gould: I think adviced to stop before I get pregnant again and that's going be a little bit longer, but it is actually as one thing I would like to ask you about.
Emma Howard: And why would that be a good idea, do you think Heather to stop, before you get pregnant again.
Heather Welford: Well I don't know, I'm not sure why Kate is been asking this, I suggest that.
Kate Gould: I think the breastfeeding took energy out of me, I mean it was perhaps I would never go back and say change it but it's been remarkable relief once she went on to enough solids for it to cut down.
Emma Howard: So, how many feeds you're doing a day now.
Kate Gould: She feeds lots of lots of this count how many times during the day, specially along with the teething she finds a nice comfort. She doesn't necessarily take much milk but yeah I think, I mean she's got a bit a redness on her cheeks.
Emma Howard: So that's means that means yes she is teething, as she has smacked their.
Kate Gould: Yeah, and she is getting a bit tired, so I think, do you mind.
Emma Howard: No you go and pop her and that would be lovely to see because she is clearly very experience feeder. Heather, I mean first feeding is a comfort if the babies are going through some pain.
Heather Welford: Yes, Babies love to suck. They love to be close to mom, the love the taste of breast milk.
Emma Howard: She knows what's coming.
Heather Welford: Yeah she knows what was coming in, oh she was a bit agitated before, and quite unhappy, but she was signaling to you, wasn't she?
Kate Gould: Yes.
Emma Howard: You know Kate that you know she wanted to little bit of a suck it.
Emma Howard: And was taking advantage of playing with the toy. If Anna wants the feed, do feel free Deborah but. Oh yeah, she is -- well she is asking you. It can very common, I mean it's famous for the ultimate bone, really isn't it? But father shouldn't feel excluded, should they?
Heather Welford: No, they shouldn't, there's lots of things that fathers can do. Even for tiny babies, who won't yet taking the solids and fathers can give that closeness that they can even give that skin to skin contact that we know is so comforting in the early days. Even if their chest are a little bit hairy, babies can enjoy that physical closeness and we know from research that's it's very important that fathers are supportive of breastfeeding, it does make the difference for a lot of people in how long they decide to breastfeed.
Emma Howard: Is that's been true for you Kate, that you had a supportive father.
Kate Gould: Yes very much. She was all for it, the only thing was when we went on holiday when she was some 5 months and a week old, he noticed how much, how often I was feeding and so he sort of brought forward with these solids the little bit just by couple of weeks, earlier than I would have done.
Emma Howard: To give you a break.
Kate Gould: Yeah exactly.
Emma Howard: Oh you've got him well trained, perfect father.
Heather Welford: That's fine because breastfeeding should fit in with your life and that clearly did with you and the solid, the timing of solids can, should fit within your life as well.
Emma Howard: But people often look for signs for solids and you're reading a book on it, the government have changed their guidelines a couple of years ago from 4 months to six months, what is your advice in the NCT to moms, and moms and dads.
Heather Welford: Well, we say that this is the government advice which is based on what we know of the powerful nutritional benefits that breastfeeding you can get, you might can give, you maximize them if you excessively breastfeed to six months but we're not going to make a big thing about a particular dot of the day on the calendar. You know, it's all babies are unique and all families are unique, with your way, with your partner, around about the time when baby is six months that could be a convenient time to introduce solids, because he was around and he could give those first solids.
So that, that obviously fit in with Kate's family. It's not a good idea to give solids too early because the baby can't digest them properly and they tend to take the place of the perfect food which is the breast milk, early solids even at six months are really for a taste of different textures, getting the baby onto a food's containing iron but there's no rush or hurry, you just go with your baby's pace.
Emma Howard: That's wonderful, thank you ladies very much for coming, with your beautiful girls, really bonny they are, and thanks is always to Heather for her great advice. Thank you.
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