Pets and Children

Catrina: While many parents are very aware that bringing home a new baby can put an older sibling nose out of joint, many have considered that their pet may also be unhappy about the new arrival. While we’re at it, dogs have been known to take exception to the new baby and attack it. David Grant, an RSPCA vet joins me today to discuss how best introduced your pets, big and small, to the new addition in the family. Welcome David. It’s one of those things you say never work with pets and children. What do you do when you have a family pet, that’s probably been in the family for some years and all of a sudden a new baby arrived, is that a quite difficult transition to make for both sides? David: It can be, I think a bit of common sense and forethought is the way forward. One thing you could do for example is play some baby noises before the baby even arrive. Catrina: Really? David: Of course, it’s a simple thing to do and the pet thinks, what’s that, and then it gets use to it. Because one of the things for a dog and a cat is this incredible noisy little creature that suddenly has come into his environment. And also, all the attention going away from the pet to the baby, I think, when the baby arrives, the common sense thing to do is introduce the baby to the, to the pet, and make sure the pet understands that even though it’s a baby, it’s higher in the peck order. Catrina: Do you actually think the pet can get used to during the pregnancy for instance, they say that babies can hear, they know their mothers and fathers voices by the time they’re born. I often wondered whether the baby would be actually be used, to say the sound of a dog barking for instance, and therefore not cry when there’s a dog barking suddenly in the house. David: Well, that maybe true, it’s an interesting thing, because I would’ve thought that if, if a dog bark loudly and the baby’s asleep, it’s gonna wake up and cry, that’s the most logical thing. But I think, the benefits of owning a pet far outweigh any risk, so I think you need to take all this in perspective and a simple common, common sense, risk assessment if you like both in health and safety as well. What I would be doing as a new parent. Catrina: But there are obviously things that you can do to prepare your home both for the arrival of the baby and also on going with pet safety. What would you say? I mean, should, should the baby and the pet be segregated for a point of view? David: Well, I personally would never allow a dog or a cat sole access to the baby without any supervision. And I think that should go on for quite a long time to, because even the most well tempered, loving animal, you know, if a toddler, for example, falls over and lands on the dog while it’s sleeping it will turn around and bite if more often than not, even before it realize it’s done it. So just common sense, keep them apart, keep them under supervision at all times, and then the risk is negligible. And you know your own dog and cat anyway, some cats, you can pick them up, do anything you like with them. Cuddle them, carry them around, you see children doing this, other cats, after ten seconds, whip, give you a swipe. Catrina: I just thought the cats would actually, they love cozy warmth, my worry would that the cat would find its way into the baby’s cod. David: I’ve never known that to happen, or any anecdote stories that a cat suffocating a baby this way, never known in my experience, I guess it can happen. But again, easily prevented, you don’t just allow the cat access to the room where the baby is sleeping and fit up some kind of safety guard on the pram or on the cod so the cat can't get in there. I mean the animal is attracted to warmth, so if there’s nice soft blanket and a lovely soft baby, then the cat would want to lay on it. Catrina: You can put a netting over. David: A kind of netting, some sort of guard up, or just keep the cat out of that room. Catrina: That’s one of the things that people would, you know, common sense is one thing, but hygiene is probably the thing that people worry about the most. I know, you know, cats and dogs, hairs, things like that. What, how, what kind of measures do you need to take? Is it a hygiene threat to your new born child? David: Well, any sick animal is a hygiene risk, but look at it this way, I’ve been a vet for 39 years, I see sick animals every day of my life, to my knowledge, I’ve never caught anything off an animal. Catrina: That’s too comfy. David: Just put it in perspective. I wash my hands, I used common sense, I don’t allow the dogs or cats to kiss me, and this sort of thing. In terms of babies, you shouldn’t allow the baby to, to be lick by the pet, that’s common sense thing. A simple thing you can do… Catrina: If it happens, you would just wipe the baby’s face with cold water and… David: Wipe the baby’s face, that’s right, and then even then, if your pet is healthy, risk is negligible. And one thing you can do, one thing I would advise people with new babies is take the pet to the vet, have a check up, have, and make sure that everything is fine. I recommend yearly checkups for pets anyway. And if you go along to the vet and have a health check, at that point, you can do your flea control program, and you don’t want any fleas around while there’s a baby in the house. You can do your worming program, which is very important indeed when it comes to toddlers. And just make sure that the pet is healthy, a healthy pet with good hygiene is virtually negligible risk to a young baby and toddlers. Catrina: How often should you worm your pet, dog and cat? David: It’s an interesting question, because we always used to say, 3 or 4 times a year. But there’s some research done in the last 6 months which suggest that, depending on the lifestyle of the pet, any cat or dog that is outside a lot, coming in to contact with wild creatures, hunting and so forth, those should be wormed monthly. Catrina: Really. David: Now, I would recommend a family, with young children, and I do recommend every day, a family with young children, with a cat or a dog has access to the outdoors, worm it monthly. But the great thing is there are some products which are supplied by veterinary surgeons which can worm the animal and de flea them at the same time. So you do everything all in one go, just once a month. Catrina: Coz I often wondered about the, I have a Labrador, so, thinking about what I have to do and three young children, but the product that you use to de flea and that you put on the neck, Banditick, that smells very strong, I mean, it’s obviously highly chemical. David: Yes. Catrina: I would be worried about one of my younger children, who love, they love to cuddle this Labrador. David: That’s right. Catrina: Is that a danger to them if it stays on the skin for some time? David: Yes, some people are worried about this, although the health and safety studies on these are, on these products show that they’re not a danger. However, there are other products that you can use if you’re worried about that, there’s a product which are given pill form. This product will worm the animal, and it’s out of the system within 24 hours, so, the animal’s wormed, and in terms of the flea control that it gives you, it sterilizes the flea, so if any eggs that are laid are sterile, and that process, no hazard to children whatsoever. So depending on what your worries are, discuss it with your vet, there are so many different types of product. Now you don’t like the chemical, one’s that smell very not, not smell very nice, there are others you can use. Catrina: That’s the answer also, they’re quite difficult, to put them on the dog anyway, try and said, put in the base of the neck and you’re peeling back the fur and trying to get it… David: You’re trying to nail strawberry jam to the wall, isn’t it. You know, try this wiggling thing. Catrina: It’s not easy. David: You need, it’s a two person job. Catrina: But you know, I heard what you said in the beginning, the advantages of having a pet far outweigh the disadvantages. I’m obviously bias, because I always have dogs and I ventured on having three very young children. My youngest is only under a year and I decided to get a Labrador puppy… David: Good choice. Catrina: Good choice, coz Labradors are known to be good with children. David: Yes. Catrina: I must say, it proved an excellent choice, but one of the things that I realized, just from the point of view of being a mother, is that the attention that you would normally pay to a pet, a new pet, and everybody would fuss, and you simply don’t have the time to do that. So do you think it’s actually wrong, I think, you know, to acquire a pet once you’ve got young children in the house? Because you cannot give them that kind of attention or training for that matter. David: Well I think you probably can if you sort of, if you got time management, or if you can delegate… Catrina: Implication is that I’m not, yes, it’s fine. David: I didn’t, I didn’t say that, but I mean, I think, I think that if you can time manage and delegate and work out what the dog needs, maybe it needs just three walks a day and you can fit that into family program, then it’s very worthwhile. I mean, the advantage to your children of growing up with that Labrador, well fantastic, aren’t they. Catrina: It’s fantastic, seeing these children that shear joy that it brings to them, and also the contact, the human contact with an animal. They’re not afraid of other animals when we go into the countryside, you know, they’re interested in other animals as the result. David: And you're teaching them responsibility. Catrina: Yeah, taking care of it. David: Responsible pet ownership, caring, I mean, we’re both converted. Catrina: They actually fight on who’s gonna feed the dog. But one of the things I was particularly concerned about, because I have history of allergy in the family, was obviously asthma and allergies, and what I did with, with my two children, the older two, three and five, was to have tested for dog, for allergy. David: It’s interesting, that’s very responsible of you. Catrina: Well, you know, with asthma and allergies like that, you can't really take that kind of a risk. It was an important factor, as it turns out, I was very lucky, two of them, one of them is allergic to horses but not to dogs. David: And that shown by the experience of having the animal. Catrina: Exactly, well that’s the other I suppose you could do. Because if you think, if you have trouble, if you think the introduction of a pet is actually causing the allergy, you should presume to remove the pet for a period of time. David: Another you could’ve done is you your children to without the pets and see if there’s any type of reaction at all before you go got the dog, but doing the testing is fine. My daughter is eleven, is very highly allergic, it’s allergic, everything, peanuts, virtually every feathered creature, we find out as we go along. She was in a horse riding party recently, we didn’t think she was allergic to horses, I could tell you she is, I got a picture of her big smile in her face, all eyes puff up. So, it’s, I can't have pets, this things done in the moment. Catrina: In that aspect, can you actually use, do you know whether you can use anti allergy medicine to actually tone that down on toddlers for instance? Obviously, not on babies, but… David: There are, there are preparations which you can spray on the animal which tend to reduce the risk of allergy, but most of the allergy on pets to humans is cause by saliva, actually it’s not the hair. Well the hairs can be coated with saliva and that’s how you get the contact. There are some products which tend to damp that down, and it may be possible if you haven’t got it exquisitely allergic child to use that product and be able to live together. But in my case, it wasn’t possible, I have to do, I have to give to my mother’s the dog for a while when she got to go into a home, and it prove to be impossible without my daughter suffering from asthma. So is that to rehome the dog in the end. A lot of weeping and wailing in our household that day, I can tell you. Catrina: Rehoming an animal is one, but one thing you can't do rehome your child. But one of the things I know you can do is, with the allergy side of things is you can get a child used to animals, apparently over a period of time, as long as it’s shorten exposure. Perhaps that might stop… David: Well, you are hoping to develop a resistance. Catrina: Yes. David: I’ll be honest, some children outgrow their allergies, I think the problem is the way it manifest itself. If it’s a asthmatic child, it’s really quite hard, you know, it’s a risk thing and potentially serious disease indeed. Catrina: Being sort of familiar with the psychological effects on the pet, I’m sure you see a lot, do you think it’s actually detrimental to the animal when the arrival of the new baby in the house, do they suffer? David: Well I think they have their nose point out to it, as you said earlier on. No doubt about the fact that they lost the dominance, the kingpin of the house, suddenly that’s the baby, I’m sure they don’t like that, but they get used to that very quickly. I think the first dangerous period, when you got to be careful is when the baby starts crawling and toddling, and then they’ve no idea of danger, they attack the dog, pull its tail, and twiddle him, poke it, that sort of thing, the same with cats. And that’s the time you need… Catrina: The perfectly normal time, dog for instance, could actually turn if it’s hurt or pestered constantly, and I’ve seen that, even with the Labrador, they do get… David: Even those, they might, give a warning, a growl, and growling you take very seriously indeed, or it might just be an accident. Kid falls and lands on them, frightens the dog. So I think, under these circumstances, it’s much better to have supervision all the time, even if you think the dog’s perfectly okay, just best to be around. And also, you need to train the toddler from a very early age that the dog is not a play thing, lay it on, I think it is, it’s a living creature, it has feelings. And you also need to train the dog that the toddler, he knows, the toddler is still higher up in the peck order… Catrina: Because animals are, I mean they want to know, I know dogs do, I know when I train my Labrador, they need to have a pack leader, they need to know that you as a human being are in charge and in control. Therefore if you introduce the right kind of behavior right from the beginning, in terms of getting them to sit, lie down, or be in a separate room, separate space, that must be quite… David: Very useful. Catrina: … useful. David: That’s the best way forward, I think, I think good training. They need to know where they are in the order, even cats, number of times a cat comes to the vet, says, he’s perfectly well and at home is, you know, doesn’t go to do anything. Catrina: Have you seen pet owners come to you and said, ever since I’ve had my baby in the house, this relationship with my dog or my cat is deteriorating, what do I do? Do you get that sort of… David: Sometimes we do. I mean we get people coming in, yes, and wanting the animal rehomed, it may have scratched the new child or growled at the child or even bitten the ear, that sort of thing. So, and sometimes we have to consider rehoming. Catrina: What, just on the first aid side of things again, is it something that you should attend to right away, if there’s a scratch on a very young child or even a baby’s arm, is that likely to lead to infection? David: Yes, I think cats and dogs, if they bite or scratch, take it seriously, you need to see the GP. 9 times out of 10, it doesn’t get infected but the 10th time it might do. So, first thing, common sense, wash it, use a disinfectant, if it looks substantial, fairly deep, go and see the GP. Catrina: And if your pet is actually old, as you mentioned earlier, if it’s a disease free animal, but if it’s a much older animal that might have a history of problems, medical problems, what would you, veterinary problems, I should say, what would you, what would you advise on that premises? David: Well I think, in terms of the veterinary problems, your own veterinary surgeon’s going to advise you what’s wrong with your pet and whether there’s any possibility transmission, usually there weren’t be, but if there is a possibility, then, obviously you’ve got to use good hygiene. Again, going back to what I said before, I see sick animals every day, and I’ve stayed healthy for the last 39 years. Catrina: What about, talking about dogs and cats here, what about gerbils and hamsters and things that, you know, older siblings might have and bring back from school… David: Yes, well, there are lots of diseases that they can be prone to, some of the skin diseases, hamsters, and everything, someone gets ringworm. Your kids will gonna get ringworm… Catrina: Absolutely. David: Transmissible, but if you see any… Catrina: And that’s transmissible just by, just by touch. David: Yes. Or close contact, when they cuddle them. For the most part, if you see any abnormality on any pet, take it into a vet, get a diagnosis. Catrina: But on balance, you would say that having a pet of any sort really, but particularly perhaps dog and cat is a benefit to children growing up when you… David: It’s an absolute… Catrina: I know we’re preaching. David: We’re both parents, so, we see the benefits. I think, the answer is yes, I think there is tremendous benefit to pet ownership. And people can get the, the health side of things and the safety side of things out of control. People can get the health and safety side of things out of perspective. Simple common sense, good hygiene, trips to the vet for health checks, routine worming, de fleaing, vaccination, all those sort of things reduce the risk to nothing, effectively. And then you got the huge benefits to your family of owning a pet. Providing you can give adequate time to the pet and to the children. Catrina: If I can say it, time to the children, time for the pet. Actually you can combine the two, I take the dog and the bay for a walk at the same time, fantastic, jump on. David: Gets you well, keep you fit, keeps the dog fit. Catrina: Thank you very much David for doing this. Thank you.