Emma Howard: Hello. I'm Emma Howard and we're talking about breastfeeding here on the baby channel and with me is Heather Welford, who is a breastfeeding counselor from the NCT and sitting next here we have got Phillipa with five year and a half month old Toby. He is a proper little boy, isn't he? He is your fourth baby?
Philippa Bennett: He is yeah.
Emma Howard: And you've breastfed all of them?
Philippa Bennett: I have, Yes.
Emma Howard: You got a particular problem, where I say problem. You have to particularly stayed with Toby.
Philippa Bennett: That's right.
Emma Howard: So tell us where you are at?
Phillipa Bennett: Well I've been breastfeeding Toby for five and half month like I said, and I'm now wanting to starting on salads and originally the government advice was sort of four to six months and now they are saying near six months. So it's the time. He is also not sleeping so well. So I think it's the time.
Emma Howard: He need more bulk, him, yes.
Phillipa Bennett: And he is quite big and chunky and I just really, I have forgotten everything, even though I have had three children before. I have forgotten how to start and I was saying to have it just before - I can't remember if I should give him boiled water, all these kinds of things. So I thought it would be really nice to come today and ask Heather for some advice.
Emma Howard: But it's really refreshing as you say, you have forgotten because we all do. People don't think we do. You've got three children before him, it's expected you would know but it is so easy to forget those early days. Isn't it Heather?
Heather Welford: Yeah, it's easy as well as I think it's going to be very complicated and I'm going to tell Phillipa that it's maybe not as complicated as she needs to worry about.
Emma Howard: So where did she go from here?
Heather Welford: Well it's great that Toby is growing so gorgeous and chunky. He is chunky. So there is absolutely no rush for solids. As you say the current advice is to explicitly breastfeed to six months and there after start thinking about introducing solids along side the breast milk. Not every baby is going to fit that particular patterns. Some babies will need solids a little bit sooner, other babies will go very slowly after 6 months and there is no need to think that just because the calendar says, your baby is now six months old, he is got to be doing this.
Emma Howard: You look at signs that your baby is giving you, don't we?
Heather Welford: Yes, yes.
Emma Howard: I mean it's quite a significant sign, isn't it, that Toby is waking up in the night. That's the sign for his mom, isn't it.
Heather Welford: Well it could be, but I don't want to give Phillipa any false hope. He may still continue to wake. Babies of this age are particularly waking because they are hungry in the night and the research does show that solids doesn't make a difference overall. Some babies will coincidentally start to change their sleeping pattern but it's probably not because of the, that's the solid. Fingers crossed, it doesn't make a difference.
Phillipa Bennett: I was quite interested in that actually because I have read that of course, fruits and vegetables has got less calories than breast milk.
Heather Welford: Oh yes.
Phillipa Bennett: I couldn't quite understand how people do think solids makes baby sleep but I suppose does it take longer to digest the food?
Heather Welford: Not really and you're right about the calorie content of breast milk is -- a meal of beast milk is going to have more calories than the meal of the food and veg purees that we tend to start babies on.
Emma Howard: And that because the body is producing exactly what the baby needs. The breast milk has that.
Heather Welford: The breast -- we know that baby is going to be perfectly well.
Phillipa Bennett: Oh I am sorry.
Emma Howard: -- experience stage. Look at that.
Heather Welford: Look at that, just straight. I will have that mom, thank you very much. That was what I was out to taken for.
Emma Howard: I know in another items we'll talk about, when you are just beginning this stage, I can imagine a mom with a newborn watching you is thinking, how does she do that so easily.
Phillipa Bennett: But even though he is my fourth, I still in the first few days have this kind of, newborn babies are quite difficult to maneuver, I never mind have to maneuver them in this position and think about, concentrate right.
Emma Howard: It's tough in the beginning?
Phillipa Bennett: It's very difficult even with my fourth. I mean I after two or three weeks suddenly it becomes very natural and you seem to be able to do it wherever you are and how you are.
Emma Howard: Answer the phone.
Phillipa Bennett: Answer the phone, look at the catalog. Look after my other children walk around, it becomes very natural but the first couple of days I still found, I have to really try and remember very hard the positioning and how to sit comfortably.
Heather Welford: Sorry Toby we are distracting you.
Emma Howard: We are distracting Toby, isn't it? But babies has to learn to, you were saying to me earlier.
Heather Welford: Yeah, that's why.
Emma Howard: You don't ever think that that's the case.
Heather Welford: I know, there is an idea around, mothers and babies will just know how to do it. But a love, there is a lot of instincts that support breastfeeding. The baby can suck and swallow, he more or less knows where it comes from, will react when the breast is given to him. The refinements of positioning and detachments they learnt process for mother and baby, each mother and baby are unique.
So a mother who has had a brilliantly easy time with baby number one, they find that she needs to concentrate a little bit more on getting around together with baby number two. But your experience Phillipa is fairly typical. But in the early days and weeks things are -- need a little bit more concentration, little bit more attention to detail and as the baby learns and you learn, it becomes much easier.
Emma Howard: Which is clearly where you are, you are here with your four. So you have got this big boy, five-and-a-half month and do you recommend that Phillipa should start with something like baby rice. Is that the first food you always going with or is it different for different people?
Heather Welford: The great thing about the current advice which is that maximum health benefits comes with exclusive breastfeeding to six months, is that you don't need to be worried so much about purees, or stuffing up on one thing or another. It's more convenient. So you've got a baby who might be able to chew a little bit more, some babies have got teeth. I think Toby has.
Phillipa Bennett: He is just getting a tooth.
Heather Welford: He is getting a tooth. So you don't have to have everything pureed down to slop consistency. He will able to put somethings in this mouth by himself. I know you get it all over.
Emma Howard: All over. We shouldn't of afraid of mess, should we?
Heather Welford: Absolutely not.
Emma Howard: It's probably good for them to feel the texture?
Heather Welford: It's right. It's part of learning about the world around them and you probably find that when you do come to give him solids you could give him a bit of chunk of pear or apple and he can probably have a little know on that and you don't need to be messing about with the fiddly bits. So as well as the health aspect, there is the convenient aspect. Wait until about 6 months, now being in a rush, means that the actual process of giving solids becomes much, much easier, really.
Phillipa Bennett: Also I was going to ask actually, do I -- should I give him water, because if you read a lot of baby books, there is lot of conflicting information about whether or not --
Emma Howard: Cooled boiled water.
Phillipa Bennett: Yeah, and then other book say that breastfed babies don't need water and I didn't know because he was starting on solids, he should have water because perhaps a little bit more constipated. I don't know.
Emma Howard: No, It's a really good point. Isn't it?
Heather Welford: Yes. If he is continued to breastfeed quite a long side of this, so that you'll find that the breast milk will supply him with all the fluids he needs. If you're leaving him for a day or so or he was, so skipping the usual breast feeds that he has, he is going to need some thing, he is going to need some fluid and you could give him some water at that stage. The current advice is probably to give a cooled boiled water. But check with your health facilitator because when the baby is, is trying to put all sorts of things into his mouth and sitting on the floor and getting various bits of family bacteria, in that stage we don't need to be quite suppressant about the cooled boiledness of the water but with your health facilitator and see what she says.
Phillipa Bennett: That's interesting because I also didn't know if I should be sterilizing the spoons and that kind of thing. I can't remember
Heather Welford: No, you don't need to do that. Not at 6 months. It would be, a little bit more concerned with your tiny baby but you wouldn't feeding a tiny baby solids, you can wash bowls and spoons perfectly safely. You don't need to sterilize them.
Emma Howard: And would you say that that's one of the big advantages of waiting for 6 months until you start -- the baby that they can hold things, you can chunk up the food, as opposed to the slop that you talked about. Because at four months, I means those two months are really quite significant in the young babies life.
Heather Welford: That's right. There is a lot of developmental stuff goes on in those two months. Already Toby knows that if he puts his hands in front of his face, he can get good chew of his thumb. He has got that those fine motor skills really. He can hold things better than he could at four months. At least he found that. There is rattle and he won't drop it immediately.
Phillipa Bennett: He eats everything at the moment. Yes and also I think other advantages I can probably put him straight in a hand chair rather than have to sit here, rock here and try and manage to feed him with the spoon or whatever.
Emma Howard: So there are many reasons to persevere breastfeeding your baby until six months before you read. But what about those parents who could think that they have seen these signs that they have got a four and half month old baby and the baby is following the spoons of the adults with food, I mean some books say, this is a sign your baby wants food, like you do. What do you say to that?
Heather Welford: That's fine. If you really think your baby would be interested in having something extra to chew on then that's fine. I think we're concerned about that baby's getting solids really too early, below four and four and half months is really too soon in terms of nutrition. The baby doesn't need the extra and there is some research to show that if you do it too young, you'll perhaps causing problems of intolerance and food--
Emma Howard: And allergies could be sets up.
Heather Welford: Yeah, it could be.
Emma Howard: Yes, it's really important to note.
Heather Welford: Most babies - if you're baby is looking really keen, and some babies of four and half months are literally grabbing it off your plate. They are interested in the taste and the texture, they don't actually need the extra calories.
Emma Howard: And that should encouraged.
Heather Welford: That's fine. Eating is a social occasion and a baby sitting on your lap with everybody else around the table, he sees a bit of banana, you don't need to panic if he puts a bit of banana in his mouth, not when he is not that old.
Emma Howard: And the early food that should be avoided, that are evil for young children. Is anything with salt, isn't it? Salt is something you really should try to keep out.
Heather Welford: Yes, babies kidneys are not really fully developed enough to cope with extra salts in the diet until really they are quite a bit old. So you keep things salt free unless the salt is naturally present in the food, like it might be in the bit of bread or something.
Emma Howard: So where does the NCT stands on crisps. We often see young babies, and young even like Toby with the crisp, and of course, crisp has got salt on them. Some people think they are great quick fix to keep the child happy but anything with salt should leave --
Heather Welford: Crisps are not suitable for a young baby. That are too high in salt. They've got artificial flavorings and I would worry about baby biting a little bit all and actually choking on it so not crisps, no.
Emma Howard: Start with the bread sticks and rice cakes.
Heather Welford: We can't say that there is anything nutritious really in crisps for a baby of this age.
Emma Howard: No, to be avoided at all cost. It's just they are that thing that you see often and people are confused about this issue. Well Phillipa by the looks of Toby, he is going to be absolutely fantastic eater because he is a brilliant feeder and he is a big boy. Looks he is waiting for the food that you're going to give him any moment now. Thank you very much for bringing him and talking with us today and thank you Heather.
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